forum.freeciv.org

Posted: **Sun Aug 03, 2025 3:25 am**

Hi,

Drones are a familiar sighting in warfare today, but not in this game.
Now I'm sitting here thinking, how to handle drones?
Drones are, if I stay within the game rules, a mix of 3 unit class types.

While it's clear that some drones behave like aircraft; i.e. the MQ-1 Predator / MQ-1 Reaper types. Other drones like the the Russian / Iranian Shahed behave like kind of a missile (in the game).

On using drones in the Ukraine War Reuters writes.

The tiny, inexpensive FPV (first-person view) drone has proved to be one of the most potent weapons in this war, where conventional warplanes are relatively rare because of a dense concentration of anti-aircraft systems near front lines. FPVs - originally designed for civilian racers - are controlled by pilots on the ground and often crashed into targets, laden with explosives.

(1) https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAIN ... pkeyjwkpm/

Ukraine as well as Israel have recently employed drones in two successful campaigns - I guess you heard about it.

Ukraine says it has completed its biggest long-range attack of the war with Russia on Sunday, after using smuggled drones to launch a series of major strikes on at least 40 Russian warplanes at four military bases.

(2) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo

Already in the territory of the Russian Federation, drones were hidden under the roofs of houses, placed on trucks. At the right moment, the roofs of the houses were remotely opened, and the drones flew to hit the designated targets – Russian bombers.

(3) https://www.twz.com/news-features/what- ... %20trucks.

And Israel used drones succesfully against SAM Batteries.

Meanwhile, other Israeli one-way attack drones launched from within Iran were reportedly sent against surface-to-surface missile launchers determined to pose a threat to Israeli strategic targets and Israeli citizens.

(4) https://www.twz.com/air/israel-hid-dron ... ore-report

There are currently two different ideas goin' round in my head:

Requirement for both ideas to bring the tech Drone into the game

Code: Select all

[advance_drone]
name     = _("Drone")
req1     = "Combined Arms"
req2     = "Computers"
root_req = "Mass Production"
graphic  = "u.drone"
graphic_alt = "-"

A) Making drones an own unit class

Code: Select all

[unitclass_drone]
; Drones can start and land everywhere on land tiles
; /* TRANS: Unit class: used adjectivally */
name          = _("?unitclass:Drone")
min_speed     = 1
hp_loss_pct   = 0
flags         = "Missile","DoesntOccupyTile","Airliftable",
  "KillCitizen","HutFrighten","Aerial"

Code: Select all

[unit_drone]
name             =  _("Drone")
class            = "Drone"
reqs             = {
  "type", "name", "range"
; Past Internet
  "Tech", "Drones", "Player"
}
obsolete_by      = "None"
graphic          = "u.drone"
graphic_alt      = "u.helicopter"
sound_move       = "m_helicopter"
sound_move_alt   = "m_generic"
sound_fight      = "f_helicopter"
sound_fight_alt  = "f_generic"
build_cost       = 20
pop_cost         = 0
attack           = 10
defense          = 1
firepower        = 2
hitpoints        = 2
move_rate        = 10
fuel             = 0
vision_radius_sq = 4
uk_shield        = 0
uk_gold          = 1
uk_food          = 0
uk_happy         = 0
transport_cap    = 0
tp_defense       = "Blocked"
vision_layer     = "Stealth"
flags            = "FieldUnit", "NoHome", "CanKillEscaping", "NoVeteran",
                   "HasNoZOC", "Helicopter", "Shield2Gold"
roles            = "Hunter"
helptext         = _("\
A drone is a semi-autonomous cheap attacking unit\
"),_("\
 It flies slow and stealthy, therefore most advanced RADARs\
 classify the drone as a bird and ignore it.
"),_("\
Drones have the highest propability of winning,\
 when attacking enemy SAM Batteries
")

The attack value is calculated to damage or destroy a tank, much like in Ukraine war.

B) Giving an attack bonus to certain land units

Code: Select all

[effect_drone_infantry_attack_bonus]
type    = "Attack_Bonus"
value   = 5
reqs    = {
  "type","name","range"
  "Technology","Drones","Player"
  "UnitType","Alpine Troops","Local"
  "UnitType","Partisan","Local"
  "UnitType","Marines","Local"
  "UnitType","Paratroopers","Local"
}

I'm not the first one to think about it.
viewtopic.php?p=1794&hilit=drones#p1794
Help me to stop the proverbial hamster wheel spinning round in my head. What are your ideas and thoughts?

Sources and Further Reading

(1) https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAIN ... pkeyjwkpm/
(2) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo
(3) https://www.twz.com/news-features/what- ... an-bombers
(4) https://www.twz.com/air/israel-hid-dron ... ore-report
(5) https://www.cfr.org/article/how-drone-w ... g-conflict
(6) https://ecfr.eu/article/drones-in-ukrai ... -the-west/

llap \\//_

Posted: **Mon Aug 04, 2025 4:08 am**

I added Drones to my custom ruleset a while back. They're kind of different than you have; mine represent more the Predator type than the "brick of C4 duct-taped to a quadcopter" type. I've been considering adding the latter, too, as well as a naval suicide drone, but I'm not sure they're different enough from existing units (like Cruise Missiles) to be worth implementing. And I already don't use Cruise Missiles because I don't like expendable units.

First, the tech to support them: Drone Warfare, prereqs Combined Arms and Robotics:

Code: Select all

[advance_drone_warfare]
name     = _("Drone Warfare")
req1     = "Combined Arms"
req2     = "Robotics"
flags    = ""
graphic     = "a.drone_warfare"
graphic_alt = "-"

Then their class. I have a lot more unit classes than classic or civ2civ3, for finer selection of units for terrain restrictions or cargo-carrying. Light Air is a small class — the only other member is the Biplane — which I created specifically so that Airships could carry a parasite fighter without being able to tote around Strategic Bombers or whatnot. The only real difference from regular Air units, other than a few other units' cargo considerations, is that Light Air can't be Airlifted (though they can be loaded onto a Heavy Cargo Plane that can be). Airships being able to act as Drone carriers wasn't really intentional, but I think it's cool, so I've kept it. In honor of Operation Spiderweb, I've been considering giving Freight the ability to carry one, too, but haven't actually implemented it yet.

Code: Select all

[unitclass_lightair]
; /* TRANS: Unit class: used adjectivally */
name          = _("?unitclass:Light Air")   
min_speed     = 1
hp_loss_pct   = 0
hut_behavior  = "Frighten"
flags         = "Unreachable", "DoesntOccupyTile"

And the actual unit. I'm still tinkering with the stats. My current game is the first one I've played through far enough to be able to actually use them since I added them. (I've kept changing things that broke save compatibility so I had to restart.) From my so-far-limited experience, I think the actual combat stats are okay, but I think they need either more MP or another point of fuel. 8 MP is awfully tight when you've got to get back to base after attacking on it, especially when operating from a city rather than a forward carrier of some sort.

Code: Select all

[unit_drone]
name          = _("Drone")
class         = "Light Air"
;tech_req      = "Drone Warfare"
reqs          = 
  { "type", "name", "range"
    "Tech", "Drone Warfare", "Player"
  }
obsolete_by   = "None"
graphic       = "u.drone"
graphic_alt   = "-"
sound_move    = "m_fighter"
sound_move_alt = "m_generic"
sound_fight   = "f_fighter"
sound_fight_alt = "f_generic"
build_cost    = 40
pop_cost      = 0
attack        = 8
defense       = 1
hitpoints     = 10
firepower     = 2
move_rate     = 8
vision_radius_sq = 8
transport_cap = 0
fuel          = 1
uk_happy      = 0
uk_shield     = 1
uk_food       = 0
uk_gold       = 1
targets       = "Air", "Missile", "LTA", "Light Air"
embarks       = "LTA"
disembarks    = "LTA"
bonuses       =
   { "flag", "type", "value"
     "Helicopter", "DefenseDivider", 1
     "Helicopter", "LowFirepower", 1
     "Bomber", "DefenseMultiplier", 1
   }
vision_layer  = "Stealth"
flags         = "AirAttacker", "HasNoZOC", "Unbribable"
roles         = ""
helptext      = _("\
Drones are remote-controlled flying weapons platforms. Shorter-ranged and\
 weaker than full-up fighter aircraft, they allow warfare with minimal\
 risk to living personnel, and so their use is more palatable to\
 civilian populations than methods that put people at risk.\     
")

The main attraction is that they have no Happiness upkeep, so Democracies can drone-swarm their enemies with impunity. I've been thinking about dropping either the Gold or Shield upkeep, but haven't decided on that.

"LTA" is the Lighter Than Air unit class: Airships (Flight) and Balloons (Theory of Gravity). LTA units bleed HP like Helicopters instead of having Fuel. Airships have 4 MP and limited combat capability (though they're very vulnerable to fighters), and can carry a single Civilian (settler, worker, or trader units), Diplomat (Diplomat, Spy, or Explorer), or Light Air (Biplane or Drone) unit, and launch and recover the last in flight. They're mildly useful early on as ersatz bombers, until you get the real thing, and are good for frontier patrol, especially with a parasite fighter. The main thing I've been using them for lately is to turn Engineers into flying cranes for cleaning up offshore Pollution and carrying Settlers out to new city sites. I've started using them as Drone carriers, but have been running into problems because I'm at the stage of the game where my AI enemies are in full collapse and I'm pushing the front forward faster than an Airship can move, and there isn't any way to move them faster than their own native movement. (Yeah, I'm winning too hard to use all my toys. Play the tiniest violin for me.)

Balloons are pretty much worthless. No combat capabilities at all, only 1 MP; their only redeeming factor is a 2-square spotting radius. I only added them because there was a balloon sprite in one of the extra unit sets.

Posted: **Wed Aug 06, 2025 2:00 pm**

Hi,

I added Drones to my custom ruleset a while back.
They're kind of different than you have; mine represent more the Predator type

I have this kind too. Unlike in your ruleset - I assume - the Predator
doesn't cannot attack itself. It is only surveilance, but it can be armed
with small missiles; anti-tank and AA*. Just like real life.

than the "brick of C4 duct-taped to a quadcopter" type.

More an RPG grenate

I've been considering adding the latter, too, as well as a naval suicide
drone, but I'm not sure they're different enough from existing units (like
Cruise Missiles) to be worth implementing.

The problem is the, how would a drone fit in?
I have light missile* units that can be carried by ground troops. A drone
would be a duplication of capabilities.
Truth to be told, I kinda prefer a beleaguered city to produce two or three
drones per turn, than investing into expensive defenders.
That buys time to deploy a large force in the back field.
How is the saying: "Cheap is good enough for the enemy"

After Israels Operation Rising Lion, I thought, drones could be helpful
targeting SAM's in enemy cities. Yes that "brick of C4 duct-taped to a quadcopter" type. Much like:
viewtopic.php?t=95023

So, drones can take the dangerous and risky job. Saving planes and other
units for different jobs.

And I already don't use Cruise Missiles because, I don't like expendable
units.

I prefer a mix, expendable units can clear the territory and other units,
can occupy, fortify and defend it.
But I won't add "naval suicide drones", I have torpedos!
Torpedos can be launched from ships or from certain planes - this avoids
attacking an AEGIS Cruiser with a plane.

Code: Select all

[advance_drone_warfare]
name     = _("Drone Warfare")
req1     = "Combined Arms"
req2     = "Robotics"
graphic  = "a.drone_warfare"
graphic_alt = "-"

Yeah, I forgot Robotics. I used my own ruleset as model and dated drones
after Computers and Internet for the default.

Code: Select all

[unit_drone]
name          = _("Drone")
class         = "Light Air"
reqs          = {
"type", "name", "range"
"Tech", "Drone Warfare", "Player"
}
vision_layer  = "Stealth"
flags         = "AirAttacker", "HasNoZOC", "Unbribable"

I think the actual combat stats are okay, but I think they need either
more MP or another point of fuel. 8 MP is awfully tight when you've got to
get back to base after attacking on it, especially when operating from a
city rather than a forward carrier of some sort.

I think, 8MP are okay - for an expendable unit.
How I calculated the range for my anti-tank missile, the half of the
visual range of the Predator drone.

Predator visual range: 12
ATGM MP: 6**

But, "Unbribale" seems pretty useless to me. Air units are usually out
of range of spies as "Unreachable" - not that it didn't happened in
real life.

On Aug. 16, 1966, Operation Diamond resulted in what is usually described
as the “defection” to Israel of an Iraqi air force MiG-21-pilot,
Capt. Munir Redfa.
Redfa took his MiG with him.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... -his-17504

The main attraction is that they have no Happiness upkeep, so Democracies
can drone-swarm their enemies with impunity. I've been thinking about
dropping either the Gold or Shield upkeep, but haven't decided on that.

For the same reason, drones should have no home city - just upkeep gold.
Keep shields to hold the city production high.
Remember "The Ferengi Rules of Aquisition"

Nature decays, but latinum lasts forever.

"Shields deplete, but gold lasts forever"

"LTA" is the Lighter Than Air unit class: Airships (Flight) and Balloons
(Theory of Gravity).

Search for "big butt airship", I'm sure you wont be disappointed…

And it just looks like the floating effigy of a Kardashian sister.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/4893/gian ... kes-flight

The main thing I've been using them for lately is to turn Engineers into
flying cranes for cleaning up offshore Pollution and carrying Settlers out
to new city sites.

Sounds like the CargoLifter airship to me…
https://simpleflying.com/cargolifter-cl-160-fate/

I've started using them as Drone carriers

I don't have Drone Carriers, as "helicopter" drones can go almost everywhere.

Notes:
① * I have split missiles into 3 different classes

Missile) Light missile, can be launched from planes and ground units.
Much like the Javelin or Stinger missiles.
ALCM) A typical Cruise Missile
It can be launched by heavy bomber planes and ships (but not the
Aicraft Carriers)
ICBM) Nuclear thing

② ** In my ruleset, the ship and air units have higher MP stats.
Because I prefer larger maps.

forum.freeciv.org

Drone Warfare

Drone Warfare

Re: Drone Warfare

Re: Drone Warfare