Freeciv

[Per]

The technology tree should always be continuous. Tech transfered between players must not result in a player having techs for which he does not have the prerequisites. This should apply to tech exchange, stealing, conquering, and huts.

To avoid extra information leak, exchanging techs in a meeting must require two embassies. When exchanging techs in diplomacy, giving a tech also gives away all the dependencies that the other player does not have.

GUI implementation for tech exchange should include a number after the
tech, giving the number of technolgies that are simultaniously
transferred with the choosen one.

http://rt.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=6578

[dewimorgan]

If this is implemented then there will be no call for the "redundancies" like the following:

[Albatrossix]

[Kagetenshi]

[Elden]

Here's an odd idea...if you "gain" through tech theft or conquering a tech that you don't have all the prerequisites for, you get a number of bulbs (the amount it would take to research the "stolen tech" itself) towards the relevant techs, one at a time.

It would be as if your nation's tech goal was set to the one you just "stole" and you got a bunch of bulbs; they'd go through one at a time as long as you had the bulbs. Reverse engineering in action: if you steal the basics for Advanced Flight but you don't have flight, you probably can't recreate Advanced Flight right away; but on the other hand the knowledge is probably enough that you could figure out Flight from it.

This way it's still advanatagous to attack someone with higher techs then you have; while at the same time keeping the tech tree consistent.


As for why, I think keeping the tech tree continuous is vital for a few reasons:

• It makes more sense. You can currently steal Stealth and build Stealth Fighters/Bombers without any knowledge of Flight or Advanced Flight, that's hardly sensical.
  
• It mitigates the impact of a player "getting lucky" and stealing a tech far beyond their current researches. Currently, a diplomat could steal Labor Union from another player, and then the diplomat's player could churn out Mechanized Infantry before they even had Gunpower. (OK, so that example's overdramatic, but the basic principle is the same; getting the right tech can make or break a player's game and the chance of stealing really high techs).
  
• Some effects are tied to a player having specific techs (increase of population pollution, decrease of trade revenue, etc.) and skipping those techs could result in an odd advantage for players trying to avoid them by stealing "past" them.

[Lo'oris]

[markm]

This is an old old thread, but I was reading this section anyway...

It occurs to me that with the example given, of churning out Mech Inf, on the manufacturing side the main problem is likely to be lack of tools to make precision parts; you maybe do not have to understand how the thing works, you could think it is magic, but if you machine those parts precisely enough and assemble them as instructed the machinery should work. I am not so sure about the influence of the Labour Union on the thing, maybe the people you try to get to drive the vehicles would not have the esprit do corps that they would have if they were properly unionised, or something?

But the aspect I see in this is not so much that you need to know machine tools as that you might need to actually have some kind of precision tools. So to me this points back toward the old idea that maybe you ought to need certain kinds of buildings to make some kinds of units. Like to make automobiles and mech inf and such maybe you ought to need a workshoip that has the right kind of tools in it?

SO you might not need to know the machine tools tech, thus having the ability to build machine tools yourself, to make some mech inf or automobiles or whatever IF there was a suitably equipped factory or manufacturing plant in one of your cities (that you captured, for example)?

The point that some pre-requisites are less crucial than others is a good one I think...

-MarkM-

[HanduMan]

So this one is buried and forgotten? I'll give you yet another aspect on the matter.

There is a setting in the game that will give a penalty for any traded or stolen technology. If in a multiplayer game with diplcost > 0 someone trades for a technology that they do not have all the prerequisites for, they gain an unfair advantage over those who aquire the same tech by researching it. That is because the amount of the penalty bulbs is only dependent on the actual technology's required bulbs, not the requirements.

I'd call this a bug.

[Munk]