Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Planning and discussing Freeciv Longturn gaming
Canik
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Canik » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:29 am

Corbeau wrote:
wieder wrote:4) longturn.net has no problem with cheating opposed to what Lexxie was implying

This reads like "LT.net is fine with cheating", but I think Wieder meant that there are no such cheating problems on LT.net :)

Anyway, I didn't accuse anyone of cheating. I simply listed events that undoubtedly happened:
1. A player tore apart the admin and its allies by a quick and early horse attack
2. The admin-observer discussed in-game diplomacy while being an admin-observer demanding that the player stops his war
3. The player was then banned
4. Immediately after that a new feature penalizing early discovery of Horse Riding was introduced

I'll let everybody make their own conclusions.

I'll just state some more facts: Zoltan and Wieder are considered the best players in LT. They are both banned. Zoltan because he did stuff he really shouldn't have, Wieedr because... he annoyed the FCW admin by giving suggestions how to ma games better. I am maybe not in the top 3, but I guess I'm among the top 10% and I was banned during an interesting in-game situation, neighbouring the admin, under a formal reason of distributing the illegally obtained map that half the players already had.

Again, I'll let everybody make their own conclusions.

As for cheating accusations, if the reason was that someone was playing more nations, I am inclined to doubting it. Using VPNs or stuff like that is as far from being a "proof" as possible and I'm pretty sure FrecivWeb is not tracking other people's computers in a way that couldn't be intercepted by simply using private/incognito window or stuff like that.

And actually the only mistake I'm making right now is prolonging this discussion and diverging attention from really constructive efforts of creating and playing new games. LT48 is starting in a day or three, several players said they love the new ruleset so I invite everybody to drop by and have a look. So I'll stop with this now. I rest my case because I have no further info to share and I'm done repeating.


"Zoltan and Wieder are considered the best players in LT. They are both banned. Zoltan because he did stuff he really shouldn't have, Wieedr because... he annoyed the FCW admin by giving suggestions how to ma games better. I am maybe not in the top 3, but I guess I'm among the top 10% and I was banned during an interesting in-game situation, neighbouring the admin, under a formal reason of distributing the illegally obtained map that half the players already had."

For anyone interested the "stuff" Zoltan did was hack and cheat. He openly admitted it on more than one occassion. He went so far as to see he sees FCW as a playground for hackers, cheating is fair game, part of the game. He was Admin of the sole FCW instance at the time but this spurred myself, Lexxie and others to create the new instance Freecivweb.org. Meanwhile Corbeau and Wieder continued to support Zoltan and as far as I know are friendly and cooperative with him to this day. I'd be vary wary of joining any game where Zoltan is in any way involved. They are hacker-friendly, apparently.

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Corbeau
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Corbeau » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:31 am

We also rape nuns. If you have a nun you want raped, call us *wink* *wink*

Wahazar
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Wahazar » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:31 pm

Canik wrote:... He openly admitted it on more than one occassion. .... I'd be vary wary of joining any game where Zoltan is in any way involved.


Well, I don't like cheaters and I always feel, that any use of cheats/exploits by anybody including myself will ruin game ambiance.
But it is deliberate, who is less trustworthy - hacker, who can find existing exploits and use it openly,
or admin, who is intentionally breaking game by creating own exploits.
And the most disgusting part are these insolent lies, that horsemen hack is and improvement to protect late joiners.
Like filthy politician, who is corrupting law and claim that it is for common good, while it is for his own interests.
I don't mind, if somebody lies like filthy politician inside the game, because it is part of this game, but extending it beyond game
doesn't sound good, especially in case of person responsible on whole project.
Augmented2 ruleset/modpack for freeciv2.6: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=91047

Lexxie
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Lexxie » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:12 pm

Well, I don't like cheaters and I always feel, that any use of cheats/exploits by anybody including myself will ruin game ambiance.
But it is deliberate, who is less trustworthy - hacker, who can find existing exploits and use it openly,
or admin, who is intentionally breaking game by creating own exploits.
And the most disgusting part are these insolent lies, that horsemen hack is and improvement to protect late joiners.
Like filthy politician, who is corrupting law and claim that it is for common good, while it is for his own interests.
I don't mind, if somebody lies like filthy politician inside the game, because it is part of this game, but extending it beyond game
doesn't sound good, especially in case of person responsible on whole project.


Wahazar, we've had a constant problem with only 2-3 hostile people. Please be nice and don't make the mistake of believing cheaters who are doing this politics warfare.

"Admin who is intentionally breaking game by creating own exploits"
"Insolent lies" "Filthy politician", "Corrupting law" -- These are very strong words. But I'm sad you don't see who are the people really doing this.

You talk about an experimental test patch which has open challenge to community and collaboration team that carefully explains the problem and is a design competition for which solution best solves the issue. Now you make some wild accusation that it is an admin exploit, but it seems you did not even read the very long amount of work done on this project so far. Every detail of it. So far it's about 15-20 hours of people considering this issue from so many angles. Instead of calling someone filthy politician and all this, please analyse the goals, critique the goals, engage in polite information debate and exchange about the issues. Propose solution that better matches these goals. Thanks. Do not talk about experimental placeholder patch for current best solution to fix a problem, as if it is admin trying to do some exploit. This is wrong !

We are talking about some hypothetic change to a ruleset, that makes very early discovery of Horseback Riding have same mechanic as a Great Wonder. And it is. The Stone Age men who were seen to first ride horseback, were probably even more famous stories than Pyramids or Hanging Gardens. We are talking about realism; that Hun and Mongol style horse raiding was not an element of Stone Age warfare. We are talking about community growth and the issue of balancing the ultra-early phase of the game, and the explosive growth to freeciv community growth that can happen when there is always a game in first 12 turns, that has balanced its ultra-early game start. Instead of making vicious personal attacks on people, please analyze these issues. You can critique what you know, ask for more information about what you don't know, suggest alternative solutions, and so on. But do not take the current best solution in this competition to solve a problem, and try to turn it into a mean personal attack. Making some winning contributions and ideas into the final solution. Thanks.

Some of the things you claim do not match what is carefully explained already about this problem, this is why I believe you did not carefully read it. Here is a short summary of the 15-20+ hours of work on this problem so far:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=85467&start=40#p101640

Canik
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Canik » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:44 am

Wahazar wrote:
Canik wrote:... He openly admitted it on more than one occassion. .... I'd be vary wary of joining any game where Zoltan is in any way involved.


Well, I don't like cheaters and I always feel, that any use of cheats/exploits by anybody including myself will ruin game ambiance.
But it is deliberate, who is less trustworthy - hacker, who can find existing exploits and use it openly,
or admin, who is intentionally breaking game by creating own exploits.
And the most disgusting part are these insolent lies, that horsemen hack is and improvement to protect late joiners.
Like filthy politician, who is corrupting law and claim that it is for common good, while it is for his own interests.
I don't mind, if somebody lies like filthy politician inside the game, because it is part of this game, but extending it beyond game
doesn't sound good, especially in case of person responsible on whole project.


"intentionally breaking game by creating own exploits"

You may disagree with the "Horses Discovered" announcement but it's not Admin creating their own exploits. It's publically announced. You wouldn't know about it otherwise. It's not really an exploit by any stretch of the definition either.

Zoltan, you think he just found existing exploits and used it openly? No, he LITERALLY HACKED THE GAME. Like LITERALLY. And he did not tell us even HALF of what he did. I am very confident Lexxie would not and has not done this. She was dominating before she was Admin.

And again this is an experimental rule in an experimental game that will be refined, re-evaluated and adjusted if need be. This uproar is sensationalized news at best and mostly coming from non-players who have a history of hostility against us. Making a mountian out of a molehill is what this is. Stick around, you'll see. :)

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Corbeau
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Corbeau » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:48 am

Interesting. So all you do is fight hackers.

Tell me, what did Wieder, Moore and I hack?

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Corbeau
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Corbeau » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:20 am

BTW, the more I think about it and the more "information" is "revealed", I am more and more convinced that the "hacking "excuse in the latest example is a straight-out lie.

So, someone used a horsemen attack to severely cripple Lexxie's civ, and a few others. Was hacking invlolved in this attack, OR - the only thing directly mentioned was "multies" - you banned the guy simply because he was ALLEGEDLY running another nation on the other side of the map?

Canik
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Canik » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:05 pm

You and Moore have assisted Zoltan in hacks and other hostilities. Corbeau you also tried to mislead people to Moore's Zoltan-friendly/Anti-Lexxie discord server claiming it was FCW.org's official server. Wieder was not a FCW player. He was banned from our discord for ignoring rules and repeated warnings not to derail discussion with his unwelcomed and oft not-on-topic "help". I recall when we were trying to discuss Zoltan's hacking which was a very serious issue Wieder kept trying to derail it. Yeah, we don't take kindly to these things. Again, as I've said before, anyone who is just a normal player has no need for concern. Only people who refuse to heed warnings, follow rules or hack have any need to worry.

And yeah, pretty much all Lexxie does is fight hackers and improve FCW. She has skipped the last several games focusing purely on fighting hackers and improving FCW.

Also she works in coordination with other Devs and Admins none of which would support her cheating or banning people for no reason. Lexxie may be the head Admin but she needs our support and we would retract that support if she was guilty of these things. Lexxie is not the sole Dev and Emperor of the game such as Zoltan was.

Oh and before you try to act like Moore would never do that - remember I got a screenshot of him saying he'll cheat if he can. I hate busting it out because I was friends with Moore. I'd suggest keeping him out of it.

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Corbeau
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Corbeau » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:13 pm

Canik wrote:You and Moore have assisted Zoltan in hacks and other hostilities. Corbeau you also tried to mislead people to Moore's Zoltan-friendly/Anti-Lexxie discord server claiming it was FCW.org's official server.


I sincerely hope one day you will realise how much you are embarrassing yourself. My only regret is that I won't be near you to see you in person when that happens.

I assisted hacks? How did I do that? I couldn't hack a kitchen drawer if you gave me an axe! It took me a year to find out how rulesets work and then two years to actually edit a functional ruleset! The proof of my haXXor skillZ are splattered all over this forum! How on Earth would I be able to do anything with hacking?

And Moore? Yeah, FBI's most wanted...

As for "misleading people which server is official"... Are you making this up on your own or Lexxie actually persuaded you that this really happened? We have two additional Discord servers and BOTH of them have links to Freeciv Web Discord server! While on your server you are keeping a complete blackout, people get banned and lines get deleted if links to the other servers are posted! And YOU are accusing ME of making a mess with servers!? You really need to get out of Lexxie's shadow occasionally, get some sunlight because this is bad for your mental health!

I'm not going to comment on Wieder's banning. I'll just say that you have banned of people from FCW GAMES that I know for a fact were not multies or did anything illegal!

Canik wrote:And yeah, pretty much all Lexxie does is fight hackers and improve FCW. She has skipped the last several games focusing purely on fighting hackers and improving FCW.


She "skipped" the last game in a way that she played it under a different name, when she got bitchslapped she resorted to her admin level to gain additional advantage and do diplomacy and then, when it turned out she is going to lose anyway declared that "she is abandoning the game in order to fight hackers". All documented.

Really, my only issue is are you deliberately spewing bullshit or you really believe what you are saying.

Actually, Wahazar made the best remark so far. Freecivweb.org is a kindergarden, it is created TO BE a kindergarden. "Anyone who is just a normal player has no need for concern", you say? Yeah, anyone who knows his place, who doesn't threaten Lexxie's in-game position or dares to criticise the perfect master-plan - that changes with time anyway. Two years ago she was arguing that "MP ruleset is an impeccble perfection tested in thousands of games" and that everybody daring to experiment with rulesets are "amateurs unable to win by the present rules", and now we get that the most idiotic ruleset changes happen at your place - shovel men and reporting the location of capital of players who discover Horse Riding before Lexxie does - and that MP ruleset has evolved from boring to ridiculous.

Seriously. Stop embarrassing yourself. You'll feel bad later.

Wahazar
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Re: Freeciv Longturn Web - The gossip section

Postby Wahazar » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:03 pm

Canik wrote:You may disagree with the "Horses Discovered" announcement but it's not Admin creating their own exploits. It's publically announced.

No matter how do you call it, it is not a matter of phraseology, it is just a bogus feature, which was done in rage.
It is forgivable, just human things to mistakenly step into quicksand, but all these advocacy and lies *) that such exploit/cheat/feature whatever we call it is "for higher cause" is like panic movements in quicksand.
Please be calm and move your feet back and go forward in correct direction. FCW deserve it. It is a great and important project, which fit into general gaming tendency (online content available in browser), and whole community is also crucial to keep it healthy, please don't ruin it.

*) horse discovered was introduced directly when person in charge was attacked by horsemen. Moreover, it doesn't solve effectively issues of latecomers.
Some other ideas may solve it better, but were not introduced, and horse feature was also not discussed earlier. Case closed.
Augmented2 ruleset/modpack for freeciv2.6: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=91047