forum.freeciv.org

"There's no need to reinvent the wheel". Oh wait... is that so?

The option I propose is for slowing down global scientific advance, as well as for randomizing the game: every X turns (this factor is chosen by a player or a scenario designer), randomly chosen civilization forgets random technology. Example: if the factor is set to 100, every 100 turns the program chooses one Civ and removes one technology from its tech tree, so: after 100 turns, the Egyptians needs to reinvent the alphabet, and after another 100 turns, Aztecs needs to discover diplomacy once again. If the factor is set to 20, every 20 turns somebody forgets something, which slows down the global scientific advancement significantly (of course, it depends on the number of civs in the game). With factor 3 or 5, all civilizations would be permanently underdeveloped, so you need to be careful with setting low numbers.

Historical background: there were a lot of technologies, that just went forgotten or were never actually used (for example: in XI-th century, the Chinese discovered gunpowder, but their gunpowder was used to make fireworks, rather than modernize the warfare). Another example: the Romans discovered so-called Roman Concrete, a discovery, that was later forgotten for ages (ancient concrete it's still more durable than modern one).

Most peple probably like getting their battleships and keeping them.

Apart from that,

a) the oldest techs should be forgotten first I guess?

b) what happens to techs that depend on e.g. bronze working when you forget it? Does the entire tech tree crumble? That would be a desaster to that player.

It would have to be fair, so everybody would have to forget the same tech every time I'm afraid. And players would need to have a way to prevent this from happening, such as keeping enough scientist-specialists around. Just to balance it. Imagine if you needed one scientist for every tier of the tech tree.

My 2c.

The tech_upkeep_style setting in game.ruleset allows you enable tech upkeep. If a player don't produce enough science to pay it he will start forgetting techs.

sveinung wrote:The tech_upkeep_style setting in game.ruleset allows you enable tech upkeep. If a player don't produce enough science to pay it he will start forgetting techs.

Gosh, there's really nothing new under the sun.

case81 wrote:a) the oldest techs should be forgotten first I guess?.

Tech loss happens usually (ruleset can affect that) from the leafs of known techs tree, one cannot lose a tech that is requirement for another tech. You can't build Automobiles without knowing how to make Wheels for them.

@case81, @sveinung, @cazfi

Thx for the answers.

1. What about the scientific collapse: every X turns random civilization looses its latest technology? For example: Romans just discovered the computers, so in case it happens, they forget the computers - not the alphabet or the wheel. It might be related with civ's literacy rate (higher literacy rate - less probable loss).

2. Most buildings are maintained by gold. If there's no gold, the building is sold. We could apply the same rule to the science - by "maintaing" discoveries by science bulbs - if we develop the writing, and not "maintain" it by 1 bulb each turn, it's lost ("sold") and you need to develop it once more (or trade with somebody); of course, the cost of "maintaining" more advanced sciences, like rockets or computers, would be significantly higher (like 10 bulbs for a turn). So: zero science production means not only you won't discover new sciences, but loose the old one.

(Edit: the cost of very first discoveries, like pottery or alphabet, should be zero).

Science and education always needs expenses - imagine if you closed down all schools, libraries and burn all books, like it was in the Chinese Cultural Revolution - that would mean massive cultural collapse.

adamo wrote:2. Most buildings are maintained by gold. If there's no gold, the building is sold. We could apply the same rule to the science - by "maintaing" discoveries by science bulbs - if we develop the writing, and not "maintain" it by 1 bulb each turn, it's lost ("sold") and you need to develop it once more (or trade with somebody); of course, the cost of "maintaining" more advanced sciences, like rockets or computers, would be significantly higher (like 10 bulbs for a turn). So: zero science production means not only you won't discover new sciences, but loose the old one.

That's pretty much exactly what the tech upkeep ruleset feature does.