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I use modified Amplio2, so I don't know how "Swamps" are depicted in other tilesets, but it seems it's misinterpretated in Freeciv altogether.

Swamp is forested peatland as depicted in original Civ2 graphics (+1 shield as well as food would also seem logical). Since ruleset gives only +1 food from "Swamps", the Amplio graphics might be technically correct, but proper term for terrain would be "Mire".

It might be reasonable to split terrain into Swamps (f1 p1 t0) and Mires (f1 p0 t0), as I've done in my ruleset. Or just change the name or graphics for Swamp.

Jacew wrote:I use modified Amplio2, so I don't know how "Swamps" are depicted in other tilesets, but it seems it's misinterpretated in Freeciv altogether.

Swamp is forested peatland as depicted in original Civ2 graphics (+1 shield as well as food would also seem logical). Since ruleset gives only +1 food from "Swamps", the Amplio graphics might be technically correct, but proper term for terrain would be "Mire".

Or "marsh", or "bog".

I don't recall seeing any Freeciv tileset that puts dense vegetation on swamps. Personally, it just hadn't occurred to me to think of a mangrove swamp rather than a fen. (I currently live in the south-east of England, so for me a swamp starts out as a flat featureless soggy wasteland, then you employ the Dutch to drain it, then it becomes flat featureless highly productive arable land. Which fits with Civ's notion quite well.)

I see what you mean about the Civ2 graphics. (It's less easy to tell what Civ1 intended.) However, the yield of swamps in both commercial Civ1 and Civ2 were both 1/0/0.

The Civ 2 manual says "Swamp and Jungle are both wet terrain." In fact, ignoring special resources, Swamp and Jungle behave identically in civ2, it looks like. So we'll probably never know, but I'm inclined to say that mangroves are Jungle.

(civ2 added Spice as a special to Swamp. I've been vaguely wondering for a while what spices particularly grow in marshes or swamps.)

Jacew wrote:It might be reasonable to split terrain into Swamps (f1 p1 t0) and Mires (f1 p0 t0), as I've done in my ruleset. Or just change the name or graphics for Swamp.

Obviously custom rulesets can do what they like, but in the supplied rulesets rulesets with basically similar terrain to civ1/2, I'm inclined to keep referring to this terrain as "Swamp", since many people know what to expect from that.

A 1/1/0 terrain seems a bit too productive for something that's supposed to be a poor terrain.

I don't recall seeing any Freeciv tileset that puts dense vegetation on swamps. Personally, it just hadn't occurred to me to think of a mangrove swamp rather than a fen. (I currently live in the south-east of England, so for me a swamp starts out as a flat featureless soggy wasteland, then you employ the Dutch to drain it, then it becomes flat featureless highly productive arable land. Which fits with Civ's notion quite well.)

I've always wondered the logic behind Civs handling of swamps, now I know. Here in Finland they're forested (bogs, mires) or open areas (fens), that often have poor growth and value even if they're irrigated.

(I probably mistranslated mire in original post...)

So we'll probably never know, but I'm inclined to say that mangroves are Jungle.

That's what I thought as well.

A 1/1/0 terrain seems a bit too productive for something that's supposed to be a poor terrain.

It's not really that productive, especially since they can be dried to grassland.

Realistically I see it should go as:
Swamp -> Mining -> Fen/Open Mire (Cutting down forest should make it only wetter.)
Swamp -> Irrigation -> +1 shield (Would make it equal to forests.)
Fen/Open Mire -> Mining -> No effect
Fen/Open Mire -> Irrigation -> Swamp
(To maintain games logic, it might be reasonable to reverse the Irrigation/Mining effects.)

Of course "swamp" is so vague and complex term that what you stated above is as valid. I just think it would do much good for the game to remove the possibility of changing swamps to grassland. Perfecting the value of city radius is far too easy.