Discuss, please: Delayed GoTo and Real Turn-Based Game

Various topics about the game, the website, or anything else Freeciv related that doesn't fit elsewhere.
Ignatus
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Re: Discuss, please: Delayed GoTo and Real Turn-Based Game

Postby Ignatus » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:24 pm

Wahazar wrote:In my opinion, original civ's were turn-based game, and freeciv should be the same, regardless of singleplayer or multiplayer mode.
The main factor against such approach is only that people get used to existing hacks and flaws.

The main problem in playing multiplayer by turns is that people can't do that in large groups; otherwise, we already have phase alterating mode. The time when one can play varies from day to day, or for some players the narrow windows are too close. And we want some interactive mode like "moved a unit, saw a city, checked the wiki, discussed on Discord, deliberated for an hour, had a nap, got a plan, moved another one" - it's what you expect from a game you play once a day. Some option for playing with minimal influence of personal day regime must be introduced. Current solution with unitwaittime is what I don't like since sometimes my playing window spans turn change, movement can't be done the day before or after, so some units I can move only once instead of twice. The solution with ZoI I suggested above gives only minimal and non-global lags, and it is not so difficult to code. Unitwaittime with delayed goto is another one, but it sometimes takes out the interactivity. The solutions with all actions postponed takes away so much game dynamics that the community probably will lose more people than are distracted by current non-ideal rules. The fairness of who moves closer to TC is another problem, I like the idea of gradual gold paying, maybe also the city production and unit refreshing should become globally randomly scattered by the turn (without the abilkinty to cancel orders of previous turn) but that needs some more advanced orders postponing and some more thinking on.

Lachu
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Re: Discuss, please: Delayed GoTo and Real Turn-Based Game

Postby Lachu » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:39 pm

I like the idea with server lag. It's very intuitive and natural - units may report to king/general's/etc. , so it takes a time.

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Corbeau
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Re: Discuss, please: Delayed GoTo and Real Turn-Based Game

Postby Corbeau » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Ignatus wrote:The solutions with all actions postponed takes away so much game dynamics that the community probably will lose more people than are distracted by current non-ideal rules.

Ok, now THAT is a good point. Thanks, noted.

So, there were many partial solutions proposed so far.
- delayed Goto
- loot and stuff based on income, not on current state of treasury
- delayed terrain alteration (there is already a patch)
- either Tile Wait Time or Empire Wait Time (I'd prefer the former, players with shorter play windows would probably, too)
- programmed server lag

That said, I think the order-phase-execution-phase concept shouldn't be discarded that easily because I've seen many, many games that work very well with it, even board games! (And the separate TC for each player would solve most problems.) I would very much like to test it because I feel there would be surprising results. But until someone digs in and does the coding, it can only be an item in the wishlist.

Lexxie
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Re: Discuss, please: Delayed GoTo and Real Turn-Based Game

Postby Lexxie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:29 am

1 delayed Goto (for units with moves left, not just units with uwt)
2 looting changed: 1-treasury collected at login OR 2-based on income, not on current state of treasury
3 delayed terrain alteration (there is already a patch)
4 either Tile Wait Time or Empire Wait Time (I'd prefer the former, players with shorter play windows would probably, too)
5 programmed server lag
Also:
6 Some kind of "Contract Time" mechanism, via sliders/rules-algorithm/user self-selection, which limits the windows in which moves/attacks can be made to x per day (where x is probably 1 or 2).
7 Rally points (auto-goto point for newly produced units from city x.)
8 This idea, evolved into something that fits freeciv:
In Forge of Empires game, player could select time to select and start realizing day task, so I could select my time to realize task end at 9 pm, but at the same time I can select next task and I can realize it to 9 pm of next day.


Will someone explain what are #4 and #5 please? I'm assuming it has to do with this:
My own idea: since player of alliance A moved a unit into sight of a unit of alliance B, this A's unit sight area (or even all tiles it has seen this turn) becomes alliance A's zone of initiative: any transferring of units of alliance B by paths including this area will be postponed for the next 10-20 minutes when alliance A will be able to finish its operation. Each tile may fall into ZoI between two alliances (or better two players?) only some time after previous timeout from either side expired (or once in a turn for each side?). In multiplayer games with non-stable alliances ZoI should be postponing for all units not allied with A, maybe with some option of temporal "local alliance". This all should be checked for exploits though.

Which I don't completely grasp how that could work properly...but this type of approach has a lot of potential perhaps