Experimental and Migration

Various topics about the game, the website, or anything else Freeciv related that doesn't fit elsewhere.
cazfi
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by cazfi »

dunnoob wrote:
cazfi wrote: it's likely to be 100% = normal level, 200% = twice the normal level...
Okay, those effect types should be documented at some point in time
doc/README.effects, http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Editing_R ... leset_file

And latter says about Migration_Pct:
"Increase the calculated migration score for the a city by amount in percent." (So I too were wrong. It's actually 0% - normal, 100% - twice normal, 200% - thrice normal.This pattern ('increase' instead of 'total') is used for getting the "normal" level without ruleset author needing to add any effects at all)
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dunnoob
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by dunnoob »

cazfi wrote:doc/README.effects
Yes, that has a list of permitted ranges for each type, but what's still missing are permitted values and their interpretation, example as is: "Increase the calculated migration score for the a city by amount in percent."

That sounds like additive, as in 75+20=95 or 75-10=65 in Arbogast's question. Perfectly fine to store values less than 0 or greater than 100 if this is interpreted as never or always, respectively.
cazfi wrote:It's actually 0% - normal, 100% - twice normal, 200% - thrice normal.This pattern ('increase' instead of 'total') is used for getting the "normal" level without ruleset author needing to add any effects at all)
What does this mean for +20 and -10 with start value mgr_worldchance 75 set in experimental/game.ruleset? What is normal in this context, is it something defined in the code?
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Arbogast
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by Arbogast »

I may get something wrong here...
But in my game.ruleset the worldchance shows as ""mgr_worldchance", 25, FALSE". NO percentage.
Likewise in my effects.ruleset. They show the values I gave. Again, NO percentage.

I'm trying to understand Dunnoob's and Cazfi's comments and I may take sometime to digest.
You guys are talking percentages and I am talking values. How come ?

By the way, in the game.ruleset the line ""migration", TRUE, TRUE" can it be changed to ""migration", TRUE, FALSE" and be done with it ?
Not that I want to nuke "migration" altogether...
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Arbogast
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by Arbogast »

Gentlemen, this is getting ridiculous !
I'm in turn 67 and I have 7 miserable cities and a whopping 5 disbanded ones !!!
I'm getting discouraged the the experimental.ruleset...
If someone could give me an explanation of those values my life could improve ! ;)
Mind, I like the posts deciphering them. But I need the values now. Not what they are.
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Alien Valkyrie
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by Alien Valkyrie »

The stuff at the bottom of game.ruleset are just modified server settings - you can change those when starting a game (and some even on the fly). The "migration" setting is locked, and though you could unlock it in the ruleset, you can instead set "mgr_worldchance" and "mgr_nationchance" to 0, which also effectively blocks migration.
About percentages: The server settings "mgr_worldchance" and "mgr_nationchance" are percentages. Their values are just integers, but they are interpreted as percentages by the game. The "Migration_Pct" effects in effects.ruleset are percentage points, which are added to a base 100% multiplier for a city's migration score, e.g. when the sum of all "Migration_Pct" effects is 50 for a city, that city's migration score is multiplied with 150% (1.5). When the sum is negative (e.g. under Despotism or Anarchy), the total migration score of a city is reduced, e.g. multiplied with (100-10)% = 90% (0.9). The migration score of a city determines whether citizens will migrate to that city or from that city and how far they are willing to go.
However, to save your cities, the best thing to do probably isn't messing around in the ruleset, but building wonders and investing in luxuries.
~ AVL
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dunnoob
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by dunnoob »

Arbogast wrote:You guys are talking percentages and I am talking values. How come ?
It's what you found in the experimental/effects.ruleset:

Code: Select all

[effect_migration_anarchy]
type    = "Migration_Pct"
value   = -10
Pct (percent) and some value. Cazfi tried to explain why that's not as simple as I thought, because..., well, I haven't got it so far, but it exists. :oops:
Arbogast wrote:in the game.ruleset the line ""migration", TRUE, TRUE" can it be changed to ""migration", TRUE, FALSE" and be done with it ?
Yes, that would unlock it, and when it's unlocked you can change it in the game options before you click start. If you want it unlocked and off it would be ""migration", FALSE, FALSE"

JFTR, in theory you should copy the complete data/experimental folder to a new ~/.freeciv/2.5/myExperimental folder with a new ~/.freeciv/2.5/myExperimental.serv file consisting of one line rulesetdir myExperimental It's not only a theory if you somehow modify the shipped ruleset into a state where you can't start the game anymore. :D

Multiple obvious + related + unreported severe usability bugs:

Code: Select all

/show: migration                 +  ein
/show: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/show: Zu jeder Einstellung ist Hilfe über „help <Einstellung>“ verfügbar.
/show: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sysop: 'set migration aus'
/set: Kein Treffer für „aus“.
sysop: 'set migration FALSE'
/set: Kein Treffer für „FALSE“.
sysop: 'set migration off'
/set: Kein Treffer für „off“.
sysop: 'set migration disabled'
Konsole: migration auf „aus“ gesetzt.
sysop: 'set migration 1'
/set: Kein Treffer für „1“.
sysop: 'set migration enabled'
Konsole: migration auf „ein“ gesetzt.
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dunnoob
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by dunnoob »

Arbogast wrote:I'm in turn 67 and I have 7 miserable cities and a whopping 5 disbanded ones
You have been warned, the experimental cities need huge distances. :P
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Alien Valkyrie
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by Alien Valkyrie »

dunnoob wrote:Multiple obvious + related + unreported severe usability bugs:

Code: Select all

/show: migration                 +  ein
/show: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/show: Zu jeder Einstellung ist Hilfe über „help <Einstellung>“ verfügbar.
/show: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sysop: 'set migration aus'
/set: Kein Treffer für „aus“.
sysop: 'set migration FALSE'
/set: Kein Treffer für „FALSE“.
sysop: 'set migration off'
/set: Kein Treffer für „off“.
sysop: 'set migration disabled'
Konsole: migration auf „aus“ gesetzt.
sysop: 'set migration 1'
/set: Kein Treffer für „1“.
sysop: 'set migration enabled'
Konsole: migration auf „ein“ gesetzt.
Yeah, that's something that should be better documented - booleans are always set to "enabled" or "disabled". Also, that's one of the reasons why I play the game in English - avoids confusion - the others being that (a) I can't add translations for the new things added by my custom ruleset, and (b) some things just sound positively weird in the German translation due to the localization system being rather basic, not supporting highly-inflected languages very well :/
~ AVL
cazfi
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by cazfi »

Code: Select all

> explain migration
...
Value: disabled, Default: disabled
Granted it could explicitly state that the possible values are "enabled" and "disabled", but from current value "disabled" it should already be fairly easy to guess that the opposite is "enabled".
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Alien Valkyrie
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Re: Experimental and Migration

Post by Alien Valkyrie »

cazfi wrote:

Code: Select all

> explain migration
...
Value: disabled, Default: disabled
Granted it could explicitly state that the possible values are "enabled" and "disabled", but from current value "disabled" it should already be fairly easy to guess that the opposite is "enabled".
The problem is when the server's language is something other than English, since then it shows actual localized translations instead of "enabled" or "disabled", as dunnoob demonstrated.
~ AVL
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