Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Web version of freeciv. Please mention the site you're using, if speaking things other than general freeciv-web codebase.
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Corbeau
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Corbeau »

cazfi wrote:
Corbeau wrote:Amateur non-expert here, can someone explain in Simple English why FCW is currently not compliant with AGPL? Is it the restrictive licence they invented or is there something else?
The main problem I see (I don't know if Andreas has more in his mind) is that even though AGPL grants their users rights to the source code, their "repository policy" tries to restrict that (bolding mine):
...FCW is NOT required to do work for, nor release source code to anyone with whom we have not entered a voluntary mutual relationship...
From:
https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-s ... repository
Ok, that's what I was referring to when I asked about "restrictive licence". Thanks.
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* Freeciv LongTurn, a community of one-turn-per-day players and developers
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Corbeau
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Corbeau »

And I may as well put this here. Copied from Discord.

Aa a summary of all this: Payback's a bitch. After years of harassment and one-sided mudslinging - for those who didn't catch it, it's Lexxie against the developers of LongTurn - I don't think anyone can be surprised that the victim(s) finally snapped.

Me personally, I have reviewed my stance on FCW. Previously I thought the existence of FCW was a benefit to community. I thought it would be a soft gateway into Freeciv generally, that it would bring in more people and get more content. Now I see I was wrong. FCW failed in everything except existing for its own sake. It didn't bring many more people. The number of developers and contributors is exactly the same - or even smaller - than it was when they began, the player count is comparable to LT that has a far weaker propaganda drive (if it has one at all), FCW development has moved, but not forward, it only moved in the direction of a dead-end. Ruleset development is narrow and singular, server/client development can be represented by constructing a skyscraper in the middle of a desert, with no infrastructure and questionable foundations. It is not contributing to the community in any way except organising games within its closed circle.

Right now I don't really care if FCW existed or not. It would actually be more useful for everybody that it didn't, but it's not like I'm going to bother helping this happen, I literally don't care enough or at all.

And don't anybody think that this releasing the source code - if it has been released at all - is a "step in the right direction". It is only a step of going back to usual, of moving FCW away from being a criminal organisation. Now things are exactly the same as they were three months ago, not better. And yes, right now I am even ignoring this thing about the illegal "licence" they invented.

For things to really get better, you guys need to find the right switch in your heads and flip it. There is a set of objective markers that says if you are cooperative or not, if you are any worth to the community or not. Right now, the markers clearly say "no".
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* Freeciv LongTurn, a community of one-turn-per-day players and developers
* LongTurn Blog - information nexus with stuff and stuff and stuff
* Longturn Discord server; real-time chatting, discussing, quarrelling, trolling, gaslighting...
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

cazfi wrote:My patience aside, the one month from the first notice of the noncompliance is, like they were already warned weeks ago, important in that AGPL states that if they don't restore their compliance within 30 days from the notice, their right to use freeciv-web is not restored when they do.
Further note to that, that there's not much anybody can do for FCW after that point. We don't do copyright assignments, but all the original authors still hold the copyright to their respective parts. There is no single entity that could grant any rights, but a lot of individual copyright holders. It would be a great challenge even to contact all of them, and I think there's a few whose relationship with FCW is not very friendly.
qrtv10
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by qrtv10 »

AndreasR wrote:https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-s ... repository

These terms directly violate the AGPL license. This was also confirmed by the letter from Stallman. So Freecivweb.org still isn't AGPL compliant.

This is the AGPL license for Freeciv-web:
https://github.com/freeciv/freeciv-web/ ... ICENSE.txt
Any forks such as Freecivweb.org must comply with this license.
Incorrect and no, the letter from Stallman was a response to information that was both inaccurate and incomplete and further did not address the subject of repository policies.

The repository policy add no additional restrictions to the AGPL. AGPL precludes neither terms of service for contributing to the repository nor terms of service from a site. Additionally, the repository policy affirms, rather than violates, the nature of AGPL. Finally, a repository policy cannot in any way make a project compliant OR non-compliant; at worst, parts of the policy can be nullified by the license.

Whatever wording can be interpreted as adding additional restrictions to the code is misunderstood.. Due to confusion, we are in the process of rewriting the repository policy.

The need for terms of service and repository policy should be obvious.

The source code is available for anyone interacting with freecivweb.org through the development link on top of the front page. This is exactly what AGPL requires.

cazfi wrote: The main problem I see (I don't know if Andreas has more in his mind) is that even though AGPL grants their users rights to the source code, their "repository policy" tries to restrict that (bolding mine):
...FCW is NOT required to do work for, nor release source code to anyone with whom we have not entered a voluntary mutual relationship...
From:
https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-s ... repository
We don't see how that breaches AGPL. AGPL doesn't demand that the code be shared with anyone, only users that can interact with the software over a network. We accept by default users who interact with freecivweb.org, and they accept our ToS by using the site. The source code is available for anyone interacting with freecivweb.org through the development link on top of the front page. This is exactly what AGPL requires. As already mentioned, this text is in the process of being rewritten due to confusion.

Finally we want to make it clear that freecivweb.org are open source enthusiasts who strongly support FOSS. We are of the opionon that the underlying incident is really part of a greater conflict related to factionalism in the Freeciv community. Unfortunately this can happen in FOSS projects. We are commited to do everything possible to maintain community peace and cooperation when possible. A statement regarding this will come at a future time.
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

The fact that you seem to be also in the process of "deleting the evidence" is not very trust inducing.

https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-server/issues/168
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Corbeau
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Corbeau »

Does Github keep a record of deleted things, something like Wikipedia?

edit: Ok, if Github doesn't, there is someone who does:

https://web.archive.org/web/20211003142 ... issues/168
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* LongTurn Blog - information nexus with stuff and stuff and stuff
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cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

The web ar
Corbeau wrote:Does Github keep a record of deleted things, something like Wikipedia?

edit: Ok, if Github doesn't, there is someone who does:

https://web.archive.org/web/20211003142 ... issues/168
That archive is not complete, but a snapshot. But I think people have full copies around (including the comments that Lexxie deleted earlier already)
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

According to Lexxie they were advised to delete that ticket. Somehow I find it quite amusing that they have an advisor that tells them to delete legal documents, when there's threat of legal action against them.
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Corbeau
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Corbeau »

Welcome to the club :) A few of us have been members for a few years :)
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* Freeciv LongTurn, a community of one-turn-per-day players and developers
* LongTurn Blog - information nexus with stuff and stuff and stuff
* Longturn Discord server; real-time chatting, discussing, quarrelling, trolling, gaslighting...
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

qrtv10 wrote:It is true that for a short period, our git repository hadn't been updated
At the same time that you didn't provide the source code, your policy had the statement that you won't release the source code except to select partners. Your practice and policy agreed on not releasing the source code. So is it really so surprising that people then thought that you are not releasing the source code? I don't think it required the bad will that you claim to be victim of.
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