Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Web version of freeciv. Please mention the site you're using, if speaking things other than general freeciv-web codebase.
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

cazfi wrote:
qrtv10 wrote:It is true that for a short period, our git repository hadn't been updated
At the same time that you didn't provide the source code, your policy had the statement that you won't release the source code except to select partners. Your practice and policy agreed on not releasing the source code. So is it really so surprising that people then thought that you are not releasing the source code? I don't think it required the bad will that you claim to be victim of.
Further, in the early discussion about the Cease and Desist letter Lexxie implied multiple times that FCW can do such an arrangement because it's an AGPL licensor, but not licensee. Being such owner of the code would indeed give them much more freedom in license arrangements, but everybody here knows that claim that FCW is not a freeciv-web licensee is not true. (saing that last point was my comment that Lexxie deleted, by accident, she claimed).
louis94
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by louis94 »

Andreas opened a new issue on Github:

https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-server/issues/169

Thank you for doing this. Unfortunately Lexxie blocked me from commenting on her Github, so I guess that the only way I could possibly enforce my rights is by contacting Github, their domain provider and/or their hosting provider directly. Which means takedown requests under the relevant legislation (DCMA for Github, I think Hetzner is German law, the domain I don't know)...

Adding screenshots to this post to keep the contents of the issue documented. Also asked archive.org to save it.

I also wanted to reply to a few sentences seen in this thread:
qrtv wrote: ...and they accept our ToS by using the site...
Which ToS? As far as I know they don't exist at all. There are no ToS linked from the website, and even then I would argue that the AGPL takes precedence, since the AGPL software would be distributed before the ToS can be seen (and therefore someone reading the ToS could decide that they are unacceptable to them). So someone refusing the ToS would still be entitled to the rights granted by the AGPL.
cazfi wrote: Further note to that, that there's not much anybody can do for FCW after that point. We don't do copyright assignments, but all the original authors still hold the copyright to their respective parts. There is no single entity that could grant any rights, but a lot of individual copyright holders. It would be a great challenge even to contact all of them, and I think there's a few whose relationship with FCW is not very friendly.
Note that the 30 days notice applies for each copyright owner individually and starts once they contact FCW by "some reasonable means". This period is well engaged for me, you, and Andreas because of the interactions we had on Github. For the heirs of the original authors (ok they're maybe not that old, just having fun with what contacting every single copyright holder could entail), the 30 days period would start running once they first contact FCW. (So if they would reach an arrangement with us, e.g. by paying some money and restoring compliance, they'd be fine.)
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cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

louis94 wrote:if they would reach an arrangement with us, e.g. by paying some money
I'm not in freeciv development for money, so that is unlikely. But for fun: https://www.openhub.net/p/freeciv-web/estimated_cost (don't know if that could even be somehow relevant to the discussion, estimating the value of the software they are, or at least have been, using illegally)
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

louis94 wrote:This period is well engaged for me, you, and Andreas because of the interactions we had on Github.
Do we all know our respective dates and times, now that FCW has deleted the document? If not, I can provide them.
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Canik
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Canik »

September 28th. 27 days ago if I count correctly. is when the C&D was posted by Louis. there was much discussion and screenshotting on discord.
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

cazfi wrote:If not, I can provide them.
Related to that; so far I've seen no reason to publish anything from the emails that Lexxie has been sending to freeciv.org maintainers about the matter. I still like to keep them under wraps, but in case there's a real need for them (e.g. someone goes to court), be aware that such things exist.
cazfi
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by cazfi »

cazfi wrote:
louis94 wrote:if they would reach an arrangement with us, e.g. by paying some money
I'm not in freeciv development for money, so that is unlikely. But for fun: https://www.openhub.net/p/freeciv-web/estimated_cost (don't know if that could even be somehow relevant to the discussion, estimating the value of the software they are, or at least have been, using illegally)
The server component is a bit more pricey: https://www.openhub.net/p/freeciv/estimated_cost
sveinung
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by sveinung »

cazfi wrote:The main problem I see (I don't know if Andreas has more in his mind) is that even though AGPL grants their users rights to the source code, their "repository policy" tries to restrict that (bolding mine):
...FCW is NOT required to do work for, nor release source code to anyone with whom we have not entered a voluntary mutual relationship...
From:
https://github.com/Lexxie9952/fcw.org-s ... repository
This line has been removed. Is there anything else that copyright holders believes makes freecivweb.org non AGPLv3 compliant?
louis94
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by louis94 »

sveinung wrote:This line has been removed. Is there anything else that copyright holders believes makes freecivweb.org non AGPLv3 compliant?
To be honest, I don't know. Their legalese is too poorly written for me to understand what it does.

This is potentially harmful depending on what the ToS define as "provider" and "user". We don't know since the ToS don't exist (unless the thing on Github is the ToS? that's very unclear):
By using the FCW website, you voluntarily choose to be in a provider/user relationship under our Terms of Service.
I think the following sentence is intended to give them compliance no matter what they write elsewhere, but I don't find it very clear (what does "the latter" refer to? what are the ToS and Repo Policy? what are "our licenses"?):
In any case where an interpretation of our Terms of Service or Repository Policy can be established to be in non-accordance with our licenses, the latter shall be assumed to be what is operative.
The "Pull Request" part is still as bad as before for the rights of potential contributors, but nothing prevents them from requiring whatever they want to include contributions. There's also this part:
audio/art or other content under whatever appropriate licensing or exemptions may allow or entitle such
This sentence is probably inoperative unless they build a new tileset from scratch, but I think it's still dangerous.

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Corbeau
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Re: Source code for Freeciv-web running on Freecivweb.org

Post by Corbeau »

Can they be in compliance with AGPL if they have their own licence at all? Can there be two licences in effect?
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