Making every unit a partisan

Web version of freeciv at play.freeciv.org
User avatar
petroglyph
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Making every unit a partisan

Postby petroglyph » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm

What I mean by "making every unit a partisan" is partisan in the historical WWII sense, not the sense of the in-game Partisan unit. Hear me out:

It's kind of a shame that when a city is conquered, all of the units it supports die. It would be much more interesting if there there was a randomization process following the conquest by which the computer decides which units become "collaborators" and switch to the "occupation" government (become units for the other player) and which join the "resistance" (become city-less like starting units that remain under the control of their original player). That would make for a much more interesting situation.

Imagine if two players X and Y are at war, each with their own Maginot Lines filled with Musketeers and Workers or Riflemen and Engineers, even a few Settlers doing double-duty building forts and roads. Then X finds a way around to conquer the cities of Y. The latter is not yet vanquished because after the turn change, the computer decided 75% of his/her Maginot Line remained "loyal", including one all-important Settler, with which he/she can build a mountain-top redoubt and try to reconquer the fallen homeland.

Such a change might make for some pretty dramatic endgames, yeah? Players could literally fight to the last man, maybe even become freedom fighter/terrorists if there was no hope for reconquering the homeland. That one lone Mechanized Infantry surviving "behind enemy lines" could turn the tide in favor of a massive allied invasion. Epic stuff like this.

Also: adding a few turns of discontent in newly conquered cities could make things even more dramatic. I don't know where Freeciv developers stand with respect introducing cultures and religions to gameplay, but the notion that a city needs to first be pacified before it can be used makes intuitive historical sense.

This change could also make for interesting midgames, if a player is unlucky enough to be conquered at that point. He/she could migrate across the board, invade other players, conquer an idler, and/or provoke (*ahem) a refugee/migrant crisis somewhere (with small networks of forts serving as the in-game equivalent of refugee camps).

On a related but different note, I also think it would be amazing if players could give each other units and even cities, not just tech, shared vision, and maps. That would make the geopolitics much more realistic... (And is it wrong that as a political liberal, I get so much glee from the notion of hordes of armed Freeciv refugees rampaging into other civilizations? ... Yes, it's probably wrong ... :mrgreen: )
Attachments
soviet-guerilla.jpg

User avatar
Corbeau
Elite
Posts: 1051
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby Corbeau » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:42 pm

Problem: abuse. The unit whose city got conquered would probably become homeless, and this no upkeep needed. Que two friends conquering each other's cities to make as many units as possible homeless and upkeepless.

I can think of some solutions to this probem, but it requires some thinking and working on the code.

Revolt in conquered cities: there is a "Nations" server option. It makes conquered cities extra unhappy until the conqueror breeds more of his nationals in that city. LT42 was played with that setting, not much observation because of the otherfaults in that game. Plan to continue it in other Simulation-ruleset games (LT48 in September is the plan).

About exchanging cities, a lot of abuses have been listed (making a Democracy shield against bribery is the one that comes to mind; also, giving/receiving cities before and after TC to yield better results). I'm not against it and have a good solution for some abuse: delay city takeover several turns.

Exchanging units: yes. Unfortunately, not implemented at the moment, not due to ruleset, but to coding.

User avatar
Cylon
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby Cylon » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:56 pm

Goddamn that some crazy shite. Why we never tried it in our old server?

I feel what Corbeau saying but players gotta be real crazy to be taking each other's city just for this. A lot of effort. But in case they ARE crazy make a city lose two pop when it gets took.

KISS it Petro. Trading units is real cho. Maybe just SOME units get made partisan like the three musketeers or riflers.

But I be down to play a game like this just to see it go down sound like it be like our own world as a game.

Same rules as normal?

User avatar
petroglyph
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby petroglyph » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:25 pm

Cylon wrote:Goddamn that some crazy shite. Why we never tried it in our old server? ... Same rules as normal?


You'll need to ask Prospero about the old server. Turns out we were playing very much a "house rules" style of the game.

Yes, the standard multiplayer ruleset for the Web.

Corbeau wrote:Que two friends conquering each other's cities to make as many units as possible homeless and upkeepless. I can think of some solutions to this probem, but it requires some thinking and working on the code.


I agree with Cylon that doing this would be kind of crazy, especially with randomization at play, but not unless trading units is at play. But it would be cool if there was a technical way to prevent this.

Corbeau wrote:Revolt in conquered cities: there is a "Nations" server option.


I see, similar to culture/religion in the Sid Meier line of games.

Corbeau wrote:I'm not against it and have a good solution for some abuse: delay city takeover several turns.


Well, then, why not? :D

Corbeau wrote:Exchanging units: yes. Unfortunately, not implemented at the moment, not due to ruleset, but to coding.


I see. I think that in itself would be a big change...

Ignatus
Hardened
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:05 pm
Location: St.Petersburg, Russia
Contact:

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby Ignatus » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:46 pm

Maybe we should limit the number of upkeepless units per civilization. This can also help to simulate Civ3 behaviour (all units are not bound to any specific cities, but some gold is paid for ones exceeding a constant + sum of the effect per city) at other rulesets. Or maybe a somehow realistic idea - let the extra partisans just rob the civilization you are at war with if they finish turn within their city radius, otherwise they lose health until they starve.

Lachu
Elite
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby Lachu » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:49 pm

About unit loyalty. I have had an idea (inspired by 7k game), that every military unit have loyalty. When unit battle, it loyalty will decrease. When unit is in home, it loyalty will increase. And of course, player could set tax slider, called military to reduce unit unhappiness or click on unit and give it money.

Lachu
Elite
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby Lachu » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:56 am

Maybe add crate unit like bouy. This special unit will support nearby units for some turns. After turns drop to 0, crate will be destroyed. Units not supported by crate will be homeless and die, when hp drop to 0. This allows to make other things, like making beginning of a game more realistic. On beginning, each player will have one big crate and must reful support in crate. In future, there can exist movable crate - caravans or something like that and fortress, which will works similar to crate, but can be refulled by caravans. Of course - maybe allow to drop crate by helicopter/airplane?

On civilization 3 exist output building, which will gather resource from tile no on your territory. Crate will work similar, but it will self-destroy and it will work like opposite.

User avatar
petroglyph
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Re: Making every unit a partisan

Postby petroglyph » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:00 pm

Lachu wrote:Maybe add crate unit like bouy. ... After turns drop to 0, crate will be destroyed. Units not supported by crate will be homeless and die, when hp drop to 0. This allows to make other things, like making beginning of a game more realistic. On beginning, each player will have one big crate and must reful support in crate. In future, there can exist movable crate - caravans or something like that and fortress, which will works similar to crate, but can be refulled by caravans. Of course - maybe allow to drop crate by helicopter/airplane?


Interesting! The units would still need to be supported, and could outlast the fall of their civilization but for only so long.