The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Web version of freeciv at play.freeciv.org
uruiamme
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby uruiamme » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:52 am

AndreasR wrote:I have now fixed these bugs and pushed the changes to the production server. Can you please test it, and confirm that they have been fixed?


Very brief testing: It looks like the Savegame menu is fixed. But the (W) command doesn't wait and there doesn't seem to be a (N)o orders command that I can see... Oh you used the (J) key. Yes, the J key works I think for No orders... I am not sure why J?

And the (W)ait sometimes works, but definitely not all the time. I waited a trireme and some units that were located in/on a city tile... They did not wait. But I saw a worker that properly waited a few times (but he happened to be the last one activated). I tried making a move with a Chariot by moving it a bit, then telling it to wait... It did not. I then saw some military units wait. I think whichever unit is the last one activated is the only one that waits, so the command ends up doing nothing still most of the time.

The settler building a city seemed to work better! The next available unit did highlight. So that is good.

I will play some more and try different things. Thanks!

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AndreasR
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby AndreasR » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:28 pm

uruiamme wrote:
AndreasR wrote:I have now fixed these bugs and pushed the changes to the production server. Can you please test it, and confirm that they have been fixed?


Very brief testing: It looks like the Savegame menu is fixed. But the (W) command doesn't wait and there doesn't seem to be a (N)o orders command that I can see... Oh you used the (J) key. Yes, the J key works I think for No orders... I am not sure why J?


The 'n' keyboard shortcut is currently reserved for nuke and removing nuclear fallout, while 'j' was available.

About the Wait command, can you please provide some simple examples so I can reproduce this?
Start a simple game, and list the keyboard and mouse clicks you perform to reproduce the problem with the wait command.
When you say "They did not wait.", do you mean that the focus is not moved to another unit, or that the unit is not re-focused after waiting?

Andreas

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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby cazfi » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:52 am

One unit focus problem I've always had with freeciv-web is that focus does not advance to next unit once a settler builds a city, and gets removed in the process. I don't know if the same is true for other units disappearing from the game (diplomat actions, failed attacks, caravans) while being the focus unit.

uruiamme
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby uruiamme » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:56 am

cazfi wrote:One unit focus problem I've always had with freeciv-web is that focus does not advance to next unit once a settler builds a city, and gets removed in the process. I don't know if the same is true for other units disappearing from the game (diplomat actions, failed attacks, caravans) while being the focus unit.


That's what he just fixed a few days ago.

uruiamme
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby uruiamme » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:07 am

AndreasR wrote:
uruiamme wrote:
AndreasR wrote:I have now fixed these bugs and pushed the changes to the production server. Can you please test it, and confirm that they have been fixed?


Very brief testing: It looks like the Savegame menu is fixed. But the (W) command doesn't wait and there doesn't seem to be a (N)o orders command that I can see... Oh you used the (J) key. Yes, the J key works I think for No orders... I am not sure why J?


The 'n' keyboard shortcut is currently reserved for nuke and removing nuclear fallout, while 'j' was available.

About the Wait command, can you please provide some simple examples so I can reproduce this?
Start a simple game, and list the keyboard and mouse clicks you perform to reproduce the problem with the wait command.
When you say "They did not wait.", do you mean that the focus is not moved to another unit, or that the unit is not re-focused after waiting?

Andreas


Okay, I typed
  1. Left Arrow for settler
  2. W for for settler
  3. Right Arrow for worker
  4. Up, Up, Left for Explorer
  5. W for worker
  6. Down for Settler. (This was waiting, so it worked for him)
Now, in this case, the (W) command seemed to work... but at the end of these steps, there is a worker who is still in his original location... he is supposed to wait. But he did not. He is still standing there with 1 move.

7. Click on worker with 1 move left.
8. Up for worker.

Now all units have moved.

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AndreasR
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby AndreasR » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:52 pm

I have released a new version, where this should be fixed. uruiamme, can you please test this again now?

Andreas

uruiamme
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby uruiamme » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:44 am

AndreasR wrote:I have released a new version, where this should be fixed. uruiamme, can you please test this again now?
Andreas


Yes, Items 3 and 4 seem to be fixed. Thanks a bunch. I will still watch out in these larger games to see how #2 is working, because it still seems to jump around all over the screen as each unit is chosen. If you work more on #2, I wonder if you can force a ship to wake back up at the end of the wait queue if it gets "touched"? For example, if I load 1 to 8 units on a ship on my turn, can you make the ship active at the end of the turn, even if it had been on Sentry or something? To me, the sentry command means that it should "wake up" if something comes nearby... like my own unit jumping on board.

26. Caravans/Freight Traderoute Establishment Broken. I have seen this on a lot of different games now. There is often a problem in which some cities will not engage in a traderoute, even though they are more than 9 squares away (sometimes much further) and even though they have few, if any, traderoutes already. I got into the habit on one game of just sending a freight unit on a railroad to some city that I thought would work, typing (H)ome to change home city, and then sending the unit as far away as possible to establish a traderoute. Sometimes, with a different home city, the traderoute would work fine. A lot of the time, the older cities in the empire seem to have this issue more than the newer or younger cities. I am not sure how the trade route is calculated, but it is aggravating when I guess wrong and a traderoute can't be established and it slows the game down a lot if there are no railroads or I have a lot of caravans. In these cases, the only real offerings are Keep Moving (which works as above) or to Enter Marketplace and just get a few gold pieces.

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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby sveinung » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:58 am

uruiamme wrote:26. Caravans/Freight Traderoute Establishment Broken. I have seen this on a lot of different games now.

I made a lot of changes to this area of Freeciv some months ago. It is possible that I accidentally changed the rules. If this is the case I would appreciate a save game and instructions to reproduce the problem.

uruiamme wrote:In these cases, the only real offerings are Keep Moving (which works as above) or to Enter Marketplace and just get a few gold pieces.

I also changed Freeeciv-web so it wouldn't offer to establish a trade route when the result would be that the unit would enter the marketplace without a new trade route being established. Before this change the real result would be visible in the messages but easy to overlook. It is possible that you used to press "Establish Trade Route" but ended up entering the market place without noticing.

uruiamme wrote:There is often a problem in which some cities will not engage in a traderoute, even though they are more than 9 squares away (sometimes much further) and even though they have few, if any, traderoutes already.

Are you sure that the city don't have as many trade routes (established by you or by an AI player) as is allowed? It is only possible to replace an old trade route if the new trade route is more profitable. Are you sure that the two cities don't have a trade route to each other already?

uruiamme wrote:I am not sure how the trade route is calculated, but it is aggravating when I guess wrong and a traderoute can't be established and it slows the game down a lot if there are no railroads or I have a lot of caravans.

It is complicated. Some of it is ruleset specific. I don't have the time right now to write all the rules in precise and understandable English targeted at players. Stop reading here unless you wish to find out your self and aren't afraid of reading something targeted at ruleset authors:
You can read more about the hard coded stuff in the "Actions and their hard coded requirements" section of Freeciv's doc/README.actions. Look for "Establish Trade Route".
Freeciv-web uses the fcweb ruleset by default. You can read the fcweb ruleset at https://github.com/freeciv/freeciv-web/tree/master/freeciv/data/fcweb. According to [actionenabler_traderoute] in game.ruleset the unit can establish a trade route if it has the TradeRoute unit type flag. Both Caravan and Freight has that flag. You may also wish to read the [trade] section in the same file. There is also some effects (see effects.ruleset) involved. I don't remember the exact effects. Freeciv's doc/README.effects has a list of all effects in Freeciv.
If Freeciv-web don't behave as the ruleset and the documentation suggests there is a bug in Freeciv, in Freeciv-web or in the documentation.

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AndreasR
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby AndreasR » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:13 pm

uruiamme, what is the most important thing to improve next? perhaps you can submit a new comment, where you have re-sorted your suggestions now? Is it this the next one?

#10 City title. Can we make the City title more or less transparent? I can't see the tiles behind the city name box. Maybe something like the Caps Lock key or "C" key can make the city name box transparent.


Does this refer to the city name box on the map? This looks pretty much the same in Freeciv-web and the desktop clients. The desktop clients have a menu item to show/hide the city names on the map,
would a configuration option to show and hide city titles be sufficient for Freeciv-web?

Andreas

uruiamme
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Re: The big Freeciv-web feedback and suggestions thread

Postby uruiamme » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:55 pm

sveinung wrote:
uruiamme wrote:26. Caravans/Freight Traderoute Establishment Broken. I have seen this on a lot of different games now.

I made a lot of changes to this area of Freeciv some months ago. It is possible that I accidentally changed the rules. If this is the case I would appreciate a save game and instructions to reproduce the problem.

My current game is early, but it did show up. I could download and upload one in which the caravan is about to reach its intended destination and then doesn't offer the option to Establish traderoute. See below if I figure this out.
sveinung wrote:
uruiamme wrote:In these cases, the only real offerings are Keep Moving (which works as above) or to Enter Marketplace and just get a few gold pieces.

I also changed Freeeciv-web so it wouldn't offer to establish a trade route when the result would be that the unit would enter the marketplace without a new trade route being established. Before this change the real result would be visible in the messages but easy to overlook. It is possible that you used to press "Establish Trade Route" but ended up entering the market place without noticing.

No. There are different options offered when the unit is sent to the city. So if I choose to enter marketplace, it is the option I selected, in reluctance to go find some other place or I just needed the money. This is not common. The problem I am reporting is that the "Enter Marketplace" option is not offered in many cases. As I said previously, my normal way around the bug is to select "Keep moving" and re-home the caravan... then I try to resend it to some other city and the cycle starts over.
sveinung wrote:
uruiamme wrote:There is often a problem in which some cities will not engage in a traderoute, even though they are more than 9 squares away (sometimes much further) and even though they have few, if any, traderoutes already.

Are you sure that the city don't have as many trade routes (established by you or by an AI player) as is allowed? It is only possible to replace an old trade route if the new trade route is more profitable. Are you sure that the two cities don't have a trade route to each other already?

Yes, I have checked this. But as you probably know, the SERVER is keeping track of each traderoute and is supposed to automatically bump off the oldest one once a city reaches the hard limit of 4. I am not required to stop trading at this point... the server is supposed to just permit a new traderoute and then automatically cancel the old traderoute with the other city. ONCE IT REACHES 4, then, I agree, it should probably not permit a new traderoute unless the new one is more money. But there are some gameplay caveats.

If I am trading with the enemy, or my soon-to-be enemy, I would like to be able to trade with my own cites and knock off routes that benefit the enemy. That is a strategy that would be a nice perk, if it was possible to manipulate the traderoutes like that.

As I noted before, the problem persists on some cities that have few or ZERO traderoutes, I am pretty sure.

But I think the bug may be looking at the value of a traderoute in the wrong order. Here is my proposed fix:

What if the server looks at traderoute cost first before it counts up to see if there are already 4 traderoutes? If my traderoutes aren't full, then a new and less expensive traderoute is perfectly fine, or it should. Can someone check to see if this was written to check this in the wrong order? I think that is the bug. There also has to be checking done for both the source and destination city. I think maybe some of the code must get some of this mixed up. To me, the calculation of whether 2 cities can engage in a traderoute (true-or-false) is a simple matter of checking a few numbers and it may have gotten into some spaghetti.