General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Planning and discussing Freeciv Longturn gaming
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Corbeau
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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby Corbeau » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:31 pm

Actually, this is almost implemented: there is a possibility that, when you give tech to someone, you lose a certain amount of bulbs. It is also very realistic: instead of doing research, your scientists spent time teaching others stuff. The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).Which is absurd.

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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby cazfi » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:47 am

Corbeau wrote:The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).

This is no longer true since freeciv-2.6. See 'diplgoldcost' and 'diplbulbcost'

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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby wieder » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:57 pm

AndreasR:

Well... We don't have or use that many patches on longturn.org. I don't even know exactly what patches we use :) akfaew is managing the technical stuff there and I have been tweaking and adjusting the rulesets and managing the settings affecting the games. I'll post the link to this thread on #longturn (freenet) irc channel in case akfaew has time to check that stuff. Then again he has been relatively busy doing other stuff...

We could co-operate on the rulesets. There is still lots of room for improvement and also for balancing that would make the games more interesting for both newcomers and veteran players. If you want to, take a look at the latest ruleset for LT38.

https://github.com/longturn/games/commits/master/LT38

The plan is to add there more new world wonders that are less powerful than the ones on the standard ruleset. Now there is for example a wonder (Trade Company) giving the player who controls it 10% increase in trade, to all cities. It can only be built by someone who owns a wonder that gives all the players a 30% trade bonus.

This particular ruleset is adjusted for a two team game. There are actually not too many settings that makes this ruleset suitable for just two teams. The most important are: no tech trading, 50% penalty for gold transactions (for not boosting one player too much), and diplomacy allowed only for the team. The next game(s) will be based on this ruleset and since they will not be two team games, some of those restrictions are taken away or made less limiting.

I know how to code but I have never done anything for freeciv. We have had this one idea about making a new setting for preventing turn change RTS. The problem is that some players login just moments before tc, build a road (or something else) on enemy territory seconds before tc and then use that new infra to attack the enemy. It's a very effective strategy and there is really nothing that could be done to prevent that from happening. Unitwaittime doesn't help here because the attacking units cane wait in the city and they only need to move after the tc.

The idea was that a worker would not complete any work if it is able to see an enemy unit or city. Not if there is less than x seconds to tc. This was planned to be called the workerparalysistime but no one had the time to code it. For me starting a task like that feels like lots of work. The should be done on Linux, I guess, and since I'm using windows and mac... :P

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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby wieder » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:10 pm

drdogbot7:

Something like that might work, but I guess they can't be implemented only with ruleset changes. Would need coding and we have been avoiding pretty much anything requiring new code. It's good to talk about stuff like that because someone might get interested about implementing that one day.

Giving techs with a diplomat is something that also became popular after direct trading was prohibited. It works well in the early game but becomes too cheap in mid and late game. The diplomat costs something like 30 shield and when a tech costs 1000 bulbs, it's very cheap. Using cheaper units in the early game and more expensive in the late game might do the trick but one could store cheap units...

cazfi:

Unfortunately we still use 2.5 on longturn.org since switching to new versions has been a major task for us. Making all the ruleset changes needs to be by hand. We switched from 2.3 to 2.5 last year and will probably still use it in 2018. Maybe switching to 3.0 or 3.1 will be made in late 2018. Freeciv 3.0 seems really interesting but the time and testing used for version upgrades... Poor excuses, I know :)

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Corbeau
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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby Corbeau » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:48 pm

cazfi wrote:
Corbeau wrote:The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).

This is no longer true since freeciv-2.6. See 'diplgoldcost' and 'diplbulbcost'

Unfortunately, 2.5 is the last stable version and people who are not programmers can't really get a hold of it.

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Corbeau
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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby Corbeau » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:53 pm

cazfi wrote:
Corbeau wrote:The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).

This is no longer true since freeciv-2.6. See 'diplgoldcost' and 'diplbulbcost'

Does this mean it-s also implemented in Freeciv Web?

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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby AndreasR » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:58 pm

Corbeau wrote:
cazfi wrote:
Corbeau wrote:The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).

This is no longer true since freeciv-2.6. See 'diplgoldcost' and 'diplbulbcost'

Does this mean it-s also implemented in Freeciv Web?


Yes. We can use this feature in Freeciv-web already, since Freeciv-web follows the latest development version from GitHub.

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Corbeau
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Re: General tech (trading, leak, upkeep, loss) topic

Postby Corbeau » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:32 pm

cazfi wrote:
Corbeau wrote:The only problem is taht this value is also tied to percenage of losing gold when giving it to someone (if it is set to 20%, if you give someone 100 gold, he will receive only 80).

This is no longer true since freeciv-2.6. See 'diplgoldcost' and 'diplbulbcost'

I just checked and it is actually bulbs lost by the receiver. What I was talking about was bulb lost by the giver.

Bulbs lost by receiver is probably one of the most insignificant parameters in the game. Simply, if a receiver loses a tech, he can simply get it from treaty again and again until his losses are covered. However, if a giver loses a tech, it curbs his power to give which would seem to be the way to go if you want to make endless tech sharing less profitable.

So is there an option that makes the tech giver lose bulbs when giving it by a treaty?