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Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:26 pm
by wieder
On longturn.org no tech trade became popular after too many very good players teamed up, shared the techs and quickly became too advanced for the smaller alliances. This is the short version. Also, the tech upkeep didn't seem to be that good solution because on an alliance the other players could
instantly give back the tech(s) that were lost during the tc. It also gave an advantage to those who were able to be online at the tc.

Tech leakage has been used to compensate this and it has been working reasonably well.

Without tech trading every nation get the tech according to how well they play. Having no tech trading also allows new strategies to be used. For example, you can max trade for a while, build the infra and then switch back to max sci. You only need to know when this is the right call. In my opinion switching between different sci/tax rates adds to the game. Lots of players used to do max sci or max tax all the time when tech trading was possible.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:42 pm
by Corbeau
wieder wrote:On longturn.org no tech trade became popular after too many very good players teamed up, shared the techs and quickly became too advanced for the smaller alliances.


I believe this is the consequence of your unstimulative and homogenising scoring system. A "winning alliance" can have X number of nations and it's normal that X players team together in order to get the points and they don't really care about anything else. However, if there was competition between them (for which right now there is no reason to because they all get the same amount of points regardless of their state at the end of the game) things would have probably played slightly different.

But maybe continue this discussion in another thread?

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:21 pm
by wieder
I don't believe it's only about scoring system. If you want to do well in the game, you need techs and tech trading is a effective way of getting them for free. By free I mean without actual bulb cost. Without tech trading, everyone wanting to get tech A costing 100 bulbs, needs to spend 100 bulbs (or less with tech leakage) to get the tech. With tech trading only one player needs to spend the bulbs and the tech can be duplicated to everyone in the alliance. It's like printing money but without the inflation if the techs are not given to everyone.

It's more about becoming more advanced than some other players. I see no reason why not try to do that regardless of the scoring system, winning conditions or any other setup. All the saved resources can be used for other purposes and that definitely speeds up the game.

Of course, if specialized nations is what you are looking for, tech trading is the way to go.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:02 pm
by wieder
The tech trading tricks voiding the upkeep issues mostly apply only to longturn type of games anyway. On a shortturn game with few minute turns there is simply no time for the players to reliably fix all the issues every turn.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:46 pm
by Corbeau
Discussion about techs continued here:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=78370

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:10 am
by accomplishednoob
Well, this game 6 is really a different taste. Not only tech trade is disabled, but some wonders are rendered almost useless when the gains only apply to cities on the same continent. Will anyone go through the hassles of building Marco Polo Embassy to gain 40% trade advantage for only 3 cities? Michelangelo Chapel, J.S. Bach Cathedral, Women Suffrage, Magellan Expedition, A. smith Trading, ...?

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:18 am
by AndreasR
accomplishednoob wrote:Well, this game 6 is really a different taste. Not only tech trade is disabled, but some wonders are rendered almost useless when the gains only apply to cities on the same continent. Will anyone go through the hassles of building Marco Polo Embassy to gain 40% trade advantage for only 3 cities? Michelangelo Chapel, J.S. Bach Cathedral, Women Suffrage, Magellan Expedition, A. smith Trading, ...?


Yes, game 6 is a very different game. There are 5 other different games for you to enjoy also on play.freeciv.org.
How would you like the next LongTurn game on Freeciv-web to be like? We could begin discussing ideas for that now.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:36 am
by accomplishednoob
AndreasR wrote:
accomplishednoob wrote:Well, this game 6 is really a different taste. Not only tech trade is disabled, but some wonders are rendered almost useless when the gains only apply to cities on the same continent. Will anyone go through the hassles of building Marco Polo Embassy to gain 40% trade advantage for only 3 cities? Michelangelo Chapel, J.S. Bach Cathedral, Women Suffrage, Magellan Expedition, A. smith Trading, ...?


Yes, game 6 is a very different game. There are 5 other different games for you to enjoy also on play.freeciv.org.
How would you like the next LongTurn game on Freeciv-web to be like? We could begin discussing ideas for that now.

I prefer to go with whatever is suitable to majority. I like game 6, it is going to be a low-wonder exercise, no trade routes and no alliances. We must develop new strategies for this.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:45 am
by Canik
I think most would like a slightly reduced # of players. 100-200. Tho you could still try a 500 player game again to test the system but I'd like to try a smaller one in game 7.

Also tech trading on, definitely.

And no islands. Any land type except islands.

Re: LongTurn game 6 for Freeciv-web

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:54 am
by pungtryne
I would love a world-like map with connected continents and waterways around it all, and even huge inland areas would be good to mix it up.

Also I agree on reducing the player number for some games at least. 150 seems to work very good for G1 with fewer idlers it seems.