Discussion about the format of the longturn game

Planning and discussing Freeciv Longturn gaming
cazfi
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Re: Discussion about the format of the longturn game

Postby cazfi » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:59 pm

wieder wrote:if I understood correctly, this could be done by removing the AddToCity flag from settlers.

flags = "Settlers", "NonMil", "AddToCity", "Cities"

I didn't test it but the Cities flag should be enough for founding new cities.

Right, I didn't remember that AddToCity is already a separate flag in older versions.

wieder wrote:What I didn't see is the setting used to select what unit will be created as a start unit when it's C. How to select Early Settler instead of a Settler?

Possible in freeciv-2.6 and later.

wieder wrote:Making the cities size 2 from the start would result with an extra working tile. Now settlers take 2 population because a new city has 2 working tiles because that keeps it balanced. It's a cool feature from civ2civ3 ruleset :)

I thought the idea was that initial city founding start units can found size 2 cities and later built settlers only size 1 cities.

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Corbeau
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Re: Discussion about the format of the longturn game

Postby Corbeau » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:02 pm

wieder wrote:What I didn't see is the setting used to select what unit will be created as a start unit when it's C. How to select Early Settler instead of a Settler?

Instructions I saw is that this unit ROLE ("City Builder" or "Settler", not sure) needs to be the first in the ruleset. This means "Founder" before "Settler", and then those units will be given in the beginning. however, I tried it "at home" and it didn't work like that. however, I didn't have time at the moment and didn't try to check if there was an error somewhere so it could be I messed something up.

Making the cities size 2 from the start would result with an extra working tile. Now settlers take 2 population because a new city has 2 working tiles because that keeps it balanced. It's a cool feature from civ2civ3 ruleset :)

What I meant was that only "Founders" would build a city size 2, while ordinary Settlers would build city size 1.

wieder
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Re: Discussion about the format of the longturn game

Postby wieder » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:42 am

Oh, right :D Yes, it was supposed to apply only to start units.

Then again the easy way out would be removing the AddToCity flag from all the settlers. When you think about it, it's not really needed anyway since there are migrants/immigrants you can use to add population to the city. I've rarely seen settlers added to a city.

Maybe the first units could make the cities size 2, but then again some people might wonder why this would not apply to new settlers. Maybe this could be dealt with granary sizes?

For LT40 the planned granary sizes are:

granary_food_ini = 12, 14, 16, 20, 24, 30, 34, 40

and the granary effect will always give 50% food to the granary when the city grows. Both the auto granary for sizes smaller than 5 and the actual granary building needed for sizes 5 and bigger. I'm not yet convinced about those exact values but using something like that should speed up the game in the start. Any idea if similar granary sizes have been experimented with in the past? No need to re-invent the wheel here :D

And yes.... If the AddToCity flag is removed, there could be more settlers in the start. What would be the reasonable number for them?

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Corbeau
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Re: Discussion about the format of the longturn game

Postby Corbeau » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:45 am

wieder wrote:Then again the easy way out would be removing the AddToCity flag from all the settlers. When you think about it, it's not really needed anyway since there are migrants/immigrants you can use to add population to the city. I've rarely seen settlers added to a city.

Why didn't anyone think of this before? :D

Although, seriously, if someone wants to have less cities and pump them up, I'd really like to hear a good reason against it. Again, it's available to everybody and it has both upsides and downsides, so why not let people do it?

Maybe the first units could make the cities size 2, but then again some people might wonder why this would not apply to new settlers. Maybe this could be dealt with granary sizes?

Well, "some people" may wonder why you can't use your hands when playing football :P

Anyway:
- game mechanics: it's a way to have quick start to compensate for the slow pace in the beginning
- realism: it's the period immediately afzer the Great Migration, a lot of people are on the move and when they settle, there is a lot of them :P

For LT40 the planned granary sizes are:

granary_food_ini = 12, 14, 16, 20, 24, 30, 34, 40

Hm, I'm all for quick start and faster growth in the beginning, but this may be a bit too fast... I could swallow the smaller sizes, but a "Size 8 with Granary" to need 20 food to grow to 9? May as well enable Rapture. I'd go with 12, 14, 18, 24, 30, 40, 50...

And yes.... If the AddToCity flag is removed, there could be more settlers in the start. What would be the reasonable number for them?


Actually, if granaries are set up like above and starting city is Size 2, four settlers would be quite enough. Five would be plenty, six may be too much. I'd even settle with three under such conditions. Depending on the available land, I'd go with 4 or 5.