LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Planning and discussing Freeciv Longturn gaming
User avatar
AndreasR
Elite
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Norway

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby AndreasR » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:30 am

LongTurn Web game #8 now has 162 players. So this is by far the largest ongoing Freeciv LongTurn multiplayer game in the world, which you can join now. More players are welcome, please join here!

User avatar
Corbeau
Elite
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby Corbeau » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 pm

Turn 5

197 players
21 idle for 2 turns
16 idle for 3 turns
35 idle for 4 turns (so, logged in, sniffed at the game, left)
---
115 currently active

User avatar
AndreasR
Elite
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Norway

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby AndreasR » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:14 pm

It would be interesting to compare with the statistics from longturn.org, ie how of the 20 confirmed players in the ongoing game are actually active now.

User avatar
Corbeau
Elite
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby Corbeau » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:29 pm

Well, LT38 is not a good example for comparison because it' a team game and people are especially committed and play together from the start so it keeps them active. I'm pretty sure there are no more than 5 people who disappeared, and I'd say the number is around 2, maybe 3. But regarding regular Longturn.org games, I'd say that the number of people who went idle spontaneously (that is, not went inactive because they got conquered) was probably less than 20%. I know the last game I was playing, it was an island game, I had all my neighbours very active the whole time. One became inactive only after his neighbour conquered half his island and effectively pushed him out of the game. I'll try to get a statistic once a game starts if someone reminds me. But I vaguely recall that there were very, very few people who simply stopped playing, if any.

The game before that, a few years ago, before the long pause, again, I don't know of anyone who went idle. Again, all my neighbours and, as far as I know, all *their* neighbours played until they got smashed. Simply, the confirmation system works. But, again, I don't think this should happen in Web. You have the policy, and I agree with it, that people should be able to drop in the moment they arrive, look around and maybe they'll stay. if they don't, oh well, more room for others. It's tightly packed in there anyway.

wieder
Veteran
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:43 am

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby wieder » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:33 am

For LT37 we had 37 players joined and added to the game. 4 of there players were idle from T0. If I remember correctly, one of the idlers was replaced with an actual player. Later in the game maybe 2-3 players started idling even while they were not losing. Usually once the players lose any chance of winning or continuing the game, they may start to idle. Maybe 50% of the players keep playing to the bitter end.

The problem with the iders is not that bad if the nations are already being wiped out. However large nations starting to idle really unbalances the game and this is something we have been trying to solve with replacing idlers with new players. Another approach has been removing those players from the game.

LT38 now has 5 players kind of idling. However since it's a team game, the nations are all delegated to team mates and no nation is currently completely idle. This is however of course very different compared to teamless games.

Also, the number of idlers goes up during the summer on the northern hemisphere.

The ultimate idlerless game was Greatturn. The confirmation system there was kind of more compled and the number of idlers there was incredibly low. Unfortunately Greatturn games are no longer played.

User avatar
AndreasR
Elite
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Norway

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby AndreasR » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:48 am

269 players have now signed up for LongTurn Web Game #8. So very soon all the 300 players slots will be taken.

For comparison, SG1 on Longturn.org there were 16 confirmed players of a total of 20.

User avatar
Corbeau
Elite
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby Corbeau » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:37 am

Wait, so this is a contest? :D

Ok, will keep it in mind and act accordingly ;)

Caedo
Elite
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Germany

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby Caedo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:55 am

AndreasR wrote:269 players have now signed up for LongTurn Web Game #8. So very soon all the 300 players slots will be taken.

For comparison, SG1 on Longturn.org there were 16 confirmed players of a total of 20.

You're kind of comparing two different game formats here – one is like the gaming area in the back of a comic book store where anyone can come and go as they please, with some people becoming regulars, whereas the other one is like a proper tournament set up in advance, where there's a certain degree of commitment and you're expected to show up.

wieder
Veteran
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:43 am

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby wieder » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:04 am

Some thoughts.

The number of players for longturn.org games can't possibly reach the same numbers as it is for the web multiplayer. There are several reasons for this.

First and the most obvious is that the version of Freeciv we use us only supports max 126 players. This is the upper limit for us.

Second, the game needs an actual native client and can't be played on a browser. Now this is both good and bad. The bad is obviously the discomfort you have with the native client. It needs to be installed and the user needs to be on a computer to use it. Some mobile ports exists but as far as I know, not too many people are using those. The good is that the native client offers a full feature set out of the box. Everything pretty much just works there and also quite fast even with a low end computer. On my tests the web client wasn't that fast with amplio like settings. Probably not an issue for people with reasonably new computers. I occasionally use old & crappy hardware.

Third, there is the optimal number of players for the games. For the web version 300 is a reasonable limit since it's more like a simulation of real world like scenarios. If you want a game where the world is huge and you can't possibly explore all the world or make deals with everyone, 300 player game is a great choice for you. With explore I don't mean only the map but chatting and dealing with the world leaders. On longturn.org games the optimal is around 20-30 players depending on the game. There you could make individual deals with all the players if that's what you want. You can understand how everyone is doing and what's going on in the world. The number of players is so much smaller that you can figuratively speaking see the entire game board and the game pieces.

And also, there are rulesets. Web multiplayer is using "standard" multiplayer ruleset while longturn.org is using modified rulesets that are designed to balance the game with the feedback we have received from the past games. It's easier to go with the standard multiplayer ruleset since longturn.org has features no one is really familiar with and no one really knows what's the optimal strategy for winning the games. People really need to figure that out while playing since there is no "definite guide" for winning a longturn.org multiplayer game.

There has been bigger games like LT30 where 70 players joined the game.

http://longturn.org/game/LT30/

Lots of people felt that was simply too much. At least with the ruleset and settings used for that game. Nowdays 70 might be doable since the rulesets have been modified for dealing with lots of players if necessary.

LT30 was also using the multiplayer ruleset. We gave up on using that after LT30 since there were too many exploits, at the time, experienced players were able to use to gain advantage. That's also the reason longturn.org nowdays is using heavily modified rulesets. The rulesets should look and feel quite familiar to those who have played the game but lots of exploits have been removed or blocked. Not only unitwaittime but also other stuff. Maybe I should comment on that on appropriate thread.

I don't think there is one best solution for everyone. If you want portability and insanely huge games, go for web multiplayer. If a native client is not an issue and you want to fine tune all the small details of the game, go with smaller longturn.org games. I really like the idea of web multiplayer and I will be playing one of the games in the future.

User avatar
Corbeau
Elite
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:13 pm

Re: LongTurn Game 8 for Freeciv-web

Postby Corbeau » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:16 am

If there was a moderator in the house, he would move this discussion to somewhere more appropriate, namely, here. Since there isn't, I'll hope that people will exercise discipline and move there by themselves. I will continue there.