Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

What would you like to see in Freeciv? Do you have a good idea what should be improved or how?
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jpsm
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Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by jpsm »

I find awkward to have to build Women's suffrage to diminish military related unhappiness because people that support this cause in real life are usually pacifists. I propose replace this wonder for a new wonder Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education (either of these names are good), it should require Industrialization because public schools and government propaganda increase after Industrialization (historically 1914/WWI generation was the first generation that had universal public schooling/propaganda) but I propose that it should be more powerful than women's suffrage making unhappiness with military activity 0 and turn people in all colonies happy and enthusiastic with military activity even if in distant lands (as we see in real life).
Wahazar
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by Wahazar »

All these wonders and buildings are canonical (derivied from original Civilization game), so they will rather stay as it is.
But it is possible to redefine or add new improvements while making own ruleset.
For example in augmented2 ruleset I changed Women Suffrage effect so they now enable more production per tile or revenue in case of Republic or Democracy, while added new wonder (Hollywood) which act similar to original W.S.
Augmented2 ruleset/modpack for freeciv2.6: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=91047
jpsm
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by jpsm »

Wahazar wrote:All these wonders and buildings are canonical (derivied from original Civilization game), so they will rather stay as it is.
But it is possible to redefine or add new improvements while making own ruleset.
For example in augmented2 ruleset I changed Women Suffrage effect so they now enable more production per tile or revenue in case of Republic or Democracy, while added new wonder (Hollywood) which act similar to original W.S.
I'm reading the reading of augmented it's interesting except the upkeep more excessive and the trade routes issue because a civilization with much research will need a good cash flow.
jpsm
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by jpsm »

Note: Sacral building improvments, belonging to different faiths, doesn't mix
(temple/church/mosque can't exists in same city)
Note: different faith wonders (above and Cathedrals or Crusade) doesn't mix
(can't exists in same country, except of Golden Palace and Western Wall, which are ecumenic).
You should add religious freedom technology to fix this.
Food upkeep depend only on city size (except of Communism, which offer more free food).
I didn't understood why Communism offers free food.
jpsm
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by jpsm »

It would to be nice to at least rename this wonder but Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education as I originally proposed is not exactly the correct name.
I thought now that something like Ministry of Security or Ministry of Law and Order is a better option. Women's Suffrage counts as a Police Station in every city so this is a very useful wonder but it's just weird to associate it with feminism. It should be renamed to something like Ministry or Bureau of Security, Ministry or Bureau of Law and Order, or any other name like that. It's a good wonder but it deserves a name more appropriate to its police state function.
PS: Feminists and sjws would be outraged if they know that someone is associating feminism with police state so if the naming of this wonder was chose for ideological reasons again it was not a good choice.
Hans Lemurson
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by Hans Lemurson »

This is not a design decision made by Freeciv.
The standard ruleset in Freeciv is a copy of Civilization 2, a game that came out 25 years ago.

I believe the rationale was that historically, the Women's Suffrage movement in the US tied themselves to patriotic support of the war effort in WW1 in order to gain the political support needed to get the 19th Amendment (voting rights for all genders) passed in Congress.

Think about it this way: If you're trying to gain more support at home for your wars, you can either try to suppress dissent with Police Stations, or you can try to get a political alliance with a vocal group of women who want voting equality. The "Wonder" thus represents gaining military support by offering of more rights rather than creating a police-state.

Also, and I must stress this again: This was not a design decision made by Freeciv.
Wishes he could convert Civ2's scenarios to FreeCiv...
But instead, he made his own tileset variants, RoundSquare and Sextant-enHANSed, and refuses to play on anything else. Check them out!
nef
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Re: Ministry of Propaganda or Ministry of Education

Post by nef »

This goes right back to Civ I albeit in a slightly simpler form (no police stations). Thank you Hans for explaining this. I was always mystified by this association but it is not the only parochial feature of the game. The US was actually quite late to this party.
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