Earthquake =/= Fire

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Eusebio Ptolomeu
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Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby Eusebio Ptolomeu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:35 pm

Both earthquake and fire, if I understood the rulesets correctly, cause the demolition of a random building within a city. My point is why have 2 different disasters with the same effect? To diferentiate earthquake from fire, I think earthquake should not only destroy a random bulding, but also reduce the population of the city (while fire would only destroy a building)
I actually tried to do this myself, by editing the ruleset file, but I did something wrong and the game could not load the file anymore, had to install the game again, lol

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dunnoob
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby dunnoob » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:34 am

Eusebio Ptolomeu wrote:why have 2 different disasters with the same effect?
It could make sense, but as you wrote it is certainly possible to have different requirements and/or different effects. However, the list of possible disaster effects is limited, IMHO that's as it should be.
Eusebio Ptolomeu wrote:I actually tried to do this myself, by editing the ruleset file, but I did something wrong and the game could not load the file anymore, had to install the game again, lol
Tip to speed that up: Copy the ruleset from the installation to a ...\.freeciv\2.6\my_rules folder (Windows) or ~/.freeciv/2.6/my_rules (*NIX). Create (or copy + edit + rename) a ~/.freeciv/2.6/my_rules.serv file. For my ruleset I collected most disasters seen in classic/civ2civ3/experimental, and tweaked them.

Some criminal lobbyist of the nuclear industry "vanished" the nuclear disaster for their version of alternative facts in Freeciv, I simply recreated it, and while at it I also made sure that the upkeep for hydro plants is less than for nuclear plants. :twisted:

Code: Select all

; effects
;   - "DestroyBuilding"   = Random building is destroyed
;   - "ReducePopulation"  = Reduce city size by one unless it's already 1
;   - "ReducePopDestroy"  = Reduce city size by one (new in 2.6)
;   - "EmptyFoodStock"    = Remove all food from food stock
;   - "EmptyProdStock"    = Destroy current production
;   - "Pollution"         = One tile surrounding city polluted
;   - "Fallout"           = One tile surrounding city polluted with fallout

[disaster_earthquake_floor]
name            = _("Earthquake")
frequency       = 10
effects         = "DestroyBuilding"
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "Terrain",   "Deep Ocean",           "Adjacent"
 }

[disaster_earthquake_mountains]
name            = _("Earthquake")
frequency       = 10
effects         = "DestroyBuilding"
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "Terrain",   "Mountains",            "Adjacent"
 }

[disaster_pestilence]
name            = _("Pestilence")
frequency       = 10
effects         = "ReducePopulation"

[disaster_fire]
name            = _("Fire")
frequency       = 10
effects         = "DestroyBuilding"

[disaster_flood_river]
name            = _("Flood")
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "Extra",     "River",                "City"
 }
frequency       = 10
effects         = "EmptyFoodStock"

[disaster_flood_ocean]
name            = _("Flood")
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "TerrainClass", "Oceanic",           "Adjacent"
 }
frequency       = 10
effects         = "EmptyFoodStock"

[disaster_industrial_accident]
name            = _("Industrial Accident")
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "Building",  "Mfg. Plant",           "City"
 }
frequency       = 10
effects         = "ReducePopulation", "Pollution"

[disaster_nuclear_accident]
name            = _("Nuclear Accident")
reqs            =
 { "type",      "name",                 "range"
   "Building",  "Nuclear Plant",        "City"
 }
frequency       = 10
effects         = "ReducePopDestroy", "Fallout"

Looking at that long list, maybe it is NOT okay to use the same name for different disasters. :?:

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Corbeau
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby Corbeau » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:17 am

dunnoob wrote:Some criminal lobbyist of the nuclear industry "vanished" the nuclear disaster for their version of alternative facts in Freeciv

Well, considering that there have been in all two self-made nuclear disasters and one natural-catastrophe-induced disaster since they started building them (which is more than half a century) and there are thousands of them running in the world today, and also that they are becoming more and more safe, I'd say setting the probability as close to zero as possible, and equal to zero if the "as close to zero as possible" is still not close enough, is a pretty good approximation.
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dunnoob
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby dunnoob » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:33 pm

Corbeau wrote: I'd say setting the probability as close to zero as possible
For the purposes of the Math of Freeciv I'd need a value reflecting a relatively small probability for a relatively big damage, the new ReducePopDestroy in 2.6 is nice, but how many turns are 100,000 years... :P

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Corbeau
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby Corbeau » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:50 pm

100,000 years?
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dunnoob
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby dunnoob » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:02 pm

Infobox plutonium isotopes on enwiki: Half-life from 1,000,000 seconds (14 years) up to 1,000,000,000,000,000 seconds (8,080,000 years). For Strontium-90 enwiki says 28.97 years. No idea if that's remotely related to nuclear accidents, one article mentions Caesium-137 (30.17 years) and Strontium-90, another page mentions Caesium-137 and Iodine-131 (80197 days).

Just in case, if x has a half-life of one year, if one [amount of] x is considered as seriously bad news, and if an accident produces 1,024 [amount of] x, then the remaining one [amount of] x after 10 years is still bad for any value of "[amount of]"; half-life isn't everything, the amount and the healh risk are also important.
Last edited by dunnoob on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Corbeau
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby Corbeau » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:08 pm

Nice numbers, but you need to have a better look at what exactly is the overall effect of all that.
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dunnoob
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby dunnoob » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:24 pm

Corbeau wrote:Nice numbers, but you need to have a better look at what exactly is the overall effect of all that.
One overall effect in Bajuvaria some decades after Chernobyl and hundreds of miles away: Stay away from those mushrooms, they are still considered as toxic. :mrgreen:

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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby louis94 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:43 pm

Major nuclear accidents were caused by several different factors:
  • Mechanical problems (Three Miles Island, Kychtym, Chalk River)
  • Human error (Tchernobyl, Goiânia)
  • Flooding/fire (Fukushima, Windscale)
Apart from the immediate consequences of accidents (irradiation), some areas are now forbidden to human beings (eg around Kychtym and Tchernobyl), and will remain so basically forever. Fallout basically cannot be cleaned out. Imagine how disastrous this could be near a huge city in Freeciv...

NB: As far as I understand, nuclear bombs create less fallout than the worst nuclear accidents, because they are designed to kill quickly (and fallout kills slowly).

Louis

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Corbeau
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Re: Earthquake =/= Fire

Postby Corbeau » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:50 pm

Let's think in Civ terms.

- what is the area inaccessible to human beings in relation to one Civ tile?
- how many deaths were caused by those accidents, again, compared to standard city size in Civ?
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