Longer Tech Tree

What would you like to see in Freeciv? Do you have a good idea what should be improved or how?
ahfretheim
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Longer Tech Tree

Postby ahfretheim » Mon May 19, 2014 11:02 pm

It seems like all the techs in my games get researched by 1700 or so, occasionally a little later, and from that point forward it's just all "future techs". Would it really be that much trouble to add some more units, maybe futuristic units or jet aircraft (we have the stealth aircraft, but we don't have regular jets for in between), and maybe some additional city improvements or advanced versions of tile improvements (e.g. advanced mines like in CTP, or modern or futuristic happiness improvements like movie theaters, recording studios or TV stations) and maybe a few other things that could allow us to extend the tech tree a bit further? Is there some text file somewhere in the library where I could maybe add some of this stuff myself?

cazfi
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby cazfi » Tue May 20, 2014 3:46 pm

ahfretheim wrote:Is there some text file somewhere in the library where I could maybe add some of this stuff myself?

That's what we call rulesets (you probably already are familiar with selection of supplied rulesets: default, experimental, multiplayer, civ1, civ2). See green "Creative Content" box on freeciv home page http://www.freeciv.org/ especially ruleset editing http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Editing_Rulesets

cazfi
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby cazfi » Tue May 20, 2014 3:48 pm

See also "Rulesets and modpacks" forum.

ahfretheim
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby ahfretheim » Tue May 20, 2014 5:12 pm

cazfi wrote:
ahfretheim wrote:Is there some text file somewhere in the library where I could maybe add some of this stuff myself?

That's what we call rulesets (you probably already are familiar with selection of supplied rulesets: default, experimental, multiplayer, civ1, civ2). See green "Creative Content" box on freeciv home page http://www.freeciv.org/ especially ruleset editing http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Editing_Rulesets


Hmmm... didn't realize the tech tree was part of the ruleset. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you! Maybe if I produce something good, I'll even share it here!

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Arbogast
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby Arbogast » Wed May 21, 2014 2:12 pm

Seems like the Technical Tree is coming under fire from many angles: Some useless Techs like Fusion Power or the Future Techs, what do they contribute to the game? Maybe those existing techs that offer nothing could offer something: for instance, Chemistry could offer more immunity with a new wonder (a Pasteur prize?). And then, "Future techs" could be more pertinent to end games.
In IMO, some are weird: Manufacturing Plants are so far away from Factories, that one spends a lot of engineers cleaning pollution. And some more...
My point is: shouldn't a topic of discussion be open about it? (I guess I just did). :mrgreen:

Treefingers
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby Treefingers » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:20 am

The late tech is a reflection of the time in which that part of the game was designed. When the early Civs were made, stealth was the pinnacle of aviation, cold fusion was still "just around the corner" and nanotech was pure sciencemagic. It seems the end of a civ sim tech tree should probably be something like what is in a popsci magazine: beyond what is currently commonplace but short of fantasy scifi.

[list][*]Combat drones (land and air): cheaper, less powerful; useful vs weaker enemies to save big guns for tougher enemies; maybe they can refuel at a fortified mech inf or something[*]GPS: possibly a great example of a historically important tech with no gameplay use. Maybe it's an economic wonder?[*]Spy satellites: remote fog removal, no movement restrictions, invisible to all other civs (no diplomatic effect), very large movement distance (but only updates visibility at final position)[*]Internet: wonder? maybe it benefits all civs with computers.[*]Nanotech: industrial production bonus?[*]Genetic engineering: food production bonus?[*]

Some techs might be useful, game-wise, simply as a way to make certain wonders obsolete, something you can push for to remove an enemy's advantage.

I've also been trying to think of ways to include terrorism and other WMD types. Maybe new or existing techs enable biological and chemical warfare. Terrorists could be an escalation of civil disorder. When bio/chem/nuclear weapons are invented, maybe such attacks become possible and gradually increase in probability during civil disorder.

But anything new has to serve game play, and can't be added just because the tech is/was historically important (ever seen a civ game with "The Telephone" on the tree?) or because we players thing some device is super cool and should totally be in the game somehow.

ahfretheim
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby ahfretheim » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:13 pm

Well I've been building the BIG ruleset, which already has a lot more late game functionality, several new government types (Ecotopia, Imperialism [think Hapsburgs, late British Empire or the Kaiser] and Theocracy so far, considering Fascism - if I do Fascism, it will be the only production-oriented form of government), a whole bunch of new units (mostly futuristic, although Samurai are not), several new building improvements (including a sequel to Supermarkets, a building that triples the effectiveness of taxmen, and a building that makes your cities less susceptible to spies), several new wonders (that among other things will alleviate some of the American bias among the current wonders - the Bouchart Gardens is Canadian, Toyota Production System of course is Japanese and the Alamo, while in the United States at present, was "built" by the independent Texians), several new technologies with global effects, and I'm thinking about both a new class of buildings (capitol improvements - improvements that must be built at your capitol and have effects throughout your civilization) and reworking the Cities document to make it so everyones cities are not identical after the discovery of Railroad. I still need, as I mentioned elsewhere, some graphics help though, right now I'm really just reusing existing icons, but I suppose it can wait until I'm done.

Ecotopia I'm especially proud of - I've managed to create the ultimate lop-sided military state, complete with high (but doesn't grow with distance) corruption, tile production penalties, unlimited empire size, unlimited martial law AND each unit "satisfies" 2, no revolutions, resistance to spies, cheaper nukes and missiles (no upkeep and 1/4 production cost), 10 units free of upkeep, celebrations increase shield production all land units veteran and several horrifying wonders of evil that can only be built by Ecotopias and create terror and despair throughout the world! :D It'll be the ultimate late-game bloodlust form of govenrment! :D

ciarson
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby ciarson » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:12 am

Treefingers wrote:But anything new has to serve game play, and can't be added just because the tech is/was historically important (ever seen a civ game with "The Telephone" on the tree?) or because we players thing some device is super cool and should totally be in the game somehow.


then, let see it like this.

Every tech have to serve the gameplay but not all should offer new building or new unit but then they should offer bonuses in some aspect of the gameplay like production or management.
For example, the "telegraph", "telephone" and "radio" tech could help reduce the corruption in distant cities but not give any new building or unit. (and then could be useless in a small nation but quite important in large nation)

if the corruption percentage is based on the number of "turn" needed for an message (or order) from the capital to reach said city or a message from the city to reach the capital (the more turn needed would mean more possibility that the message got altered and therefore a higher corruption percentage.

for example (numbers are only for the show) : at start of the game, an envoy from the capital move at a speed of 1 tile per "turn", he woud take 3 "turn" to reach a city that is 3 tile away and therefore that city would have a 3% corruption but if there is a road connecting the city to the capital then the envoy would make the trip in one turn and the corruption rate would only be of 1%. now if the city is not 3 tile away but 30 tile away from the capital, we get from 30% corruption to 10% corruption only by connecting the city to the capital with roads.)

so increasing the road network (with all techs that could increase the envoy speed or reduce the corruption loss, like horseriding, wheel, automobile, writing, ...) and communication system (when communication by road are disrupted or too slow) would help reduce corruption.
therefore the "telegraph", the "telephone" and even the "radio" tech would serve the gameplay by increasing the speed of communication between the capital and the cities.

with this fact in mind, we can imagine a wide scope of tech giving each some bonuses , like increasing production, reducing corruption due to distance, increasing trade income (with tech introducing new materials or object of civilian use giving some trade percentage bonuses, like "electronic", "automobile", "plastic",...), increasing population density (helping reducing overcrowding and plague possibilities due to it ,with tech like "masonry" allowing multiple story building, "construction" allowing more complex building like the insula in the roman time , "steel" allowing skyscrapper,...), reducing directly plague possibilities (with techs like sanitation, medecine, genetical engineering,...) , ...

some of those techs are already in games with such bonuses, but some are not in game and could be considered as a good addition to the game as it would tweak the complexity of the game (making it harder at start (when you build up your empire and must deal with corruption and other factor that force you to stay a small nation) but easier in mid game or late game (when you would finaly have a large empire with a stable enough economy and could turn your attention outside of your borders with the intention of extending your living space.))

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GriffonSpade
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby GriffonSpade » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:31 am

Probably the biggest limitation in this area is available sprites. Having tech for helicarriers and death robots and all kinds of neat stuff is cool, but without the imagery, it falls flat. There are probably dozens of units it would be neat to add into the game in various ruleset mods, but without images, again, they'll not really go far. I've managed to cobble up some sprites, but only for some of the low hanging fruit.

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GriffonSpade
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Re: Longer Tech Tree

Postby GriffonSpade » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:21 am

An example list of units that would be neat to have, but we don't have (GPLv2+) graphics for:

PreIndustrial:
Trebuchet (Improved Catapult for Iron Age)

Industrial:
Industrial Riflemen (As opposed to the WWI Infantry depicted)

Electric Age:
(WWI) Armor
Biplane
Gatling Infantry
Dirigible (AKA Blimp)

World War II:
(WWII) Light Armor (Think T-34, Sherman, or Panther)
(WWII) Self-Propelled Gun/Howitzer
(WWII) Tank Destroyer (Ambush type with gun in a fixed hull without a turret)
Flak Guns (Anti-Air Armor)
Anti-Tank Infantry (Bazooka/RPG Infantry; Part of Generic Infantry?)
Mortar Infantry (Artillery Infantry; Part of Generic Infantry?)
Freighter (Modern Transport/Trade Ship?)
PT Boat (cheaper and faster than destroyers, but with minimal armor, and enough armament to maybe sink a destroyer if they're lucky. Must return to port like an airplane due to lack of fuel due to its small size. Primarily for defending/scouting around ones coastal cities.)

Nuclear Age:
Jet Fighter
Jet Bomber
SAM Battery (Immobile, but not a building so it can defend)
Main Battle Tank (Like the M1 Abrams)

Information Age:
Spy Plane (Stealth AWACs)
SEALs (as in Navy Sea Air and Land, Special Forces; improved spy with some attack/defense)
Spy Drone (Unmanned mid-range spyplane; can be carried by mech infantry)
Strike Drone (armed mid-range spyplane; can be carried by mech infantry)
Mobile SAM Battery
Modern Paratroopers
Robot Tank

Future Tech:
Death Robot
Ghosts (Even better spy with more attack/defense; technologically advanced Special Forces)
Armorines (Power Armored Infantry; Like Space Marines from SC/WH40k)
Helicarrier (Flying Aircraft Carrier, like the one SHIELD uses in Marvel Comics)
Airship (Flying AEGIS Missile Warship; Can carry missiles; possibly also held aloft similar to the Helicarrier)