destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

What would you like to see in Freeciv? Do you have a good idea what should be improved or how?
fomalhaut
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destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

Postby fomalhaut » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:05 am

Hi. I want following changes

(1) Only destroyer can always discover a submarine
(2) Armor is very weak in spite of high cost
Raise firepower to 2pt
(3) In multiplay I want to use diplomatic message that AI uses

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GriffonSpade
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Re: destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

Postby GriffonSpade » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:16 am

fomalhaut wrote:...
(2) Armor is very weak in spite of high cost
Raise firepower to 2pt...

Can be done very easily in units.ruleset of whichever ruleset you use (i suggest making a copy of the folder and .serv file, and editing the new copy and edit the new serv to use your new folder/rulesetdir) Keep in mind that doing so will make other units near useless compared to cost, so they should be strengthened as well. Perhaps finishing it all by adding a second shield upkeep to the newly buffed units.

Edit: I mean other high end units should be strengthened as well.

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(A)ttack (D)efense (H)ealth (F)irepower (C)ost (E)fficiency ([A+D]*(H/10)*F/C)
unit        A  D  H   F  C   E
warriors    1  1  10  1  10  0.2
phalanx     1  2  10  1  20  0.15
pikemen     1  2  10  1  20  0.15
archers     3  2  10  1  30  0.17
legion      4  2  10  1  40  0.15
musketeers  3  3  20  1  30  0.4
riflemen    5  4  20  1  40  0.45
partisan    4  4  20  1  50  0.32
alpine trp  5  5  20  1  50  0.4
paratr      6  4  20  1  60  0.33
marines     8  5  20  1  60  0.43
mech inf    6  6  30  1  50  0.72
horsemen    2  1  10  1  20  0.15
chariot     3  1  10  1  30  0.13
knights     4  2  10  1  40  0.15
dragoons    5  2  20  1  50  0.28
cavalry     8  3  20  1  60  0.37
ARMOR       10 5  30  1  80  0.56
catapult    6  1  10  1  40  0.18
cannon      8  1  20  1  40  0.45
artillery   10 1  20  2  50  0.88
howitzer    12 2  30  2  70  1.2


Note that Armor has an exceedingly high efficiency due to its extra health, and is still extremely fast, and the only higher units are glass cannons, and the higher end mech inf, which has vastly inferior attack value. If anything, I'd suggest just boosting its health to 40.

fomalhaut
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Location: Japan

Re: destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

Postby fomalhaut » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:44 pm

Of course I know how to edit units.ruleset.
But I want to strengthen Armor like submarine (reduced attack point 15 to 12:ver2.2.0)
Though "Mobile Warfare" is very big and important changes in the history of war, Armor in Freeciv is useless units.
I can't understand why firepower of Armor is lower than that of Artillery.
Did Armor model on "Panzer II" or "Panzer III"? Where is "Pnther" or "Tiger I" ?

If Health of Armor increases to 40, Efficency increases to 0.75.
0.75 is appropriate compared with Artillery(0.88).
(I'm convinced that Armor is too strong if their firepower is 2. )


And I strongly hope (1).
As "Civilization II", this change gives a new and big role to destroyer until game end.

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GriffonSpade
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Re: destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

Postby GriffonSpade » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:56 pm

fomalhaut wrote:Of course I know how to edit units.ruleset.
But I want to strengthen Armor like submarine (reduced attack point 15 to 12:ver2.2.0)
Though "Mobile Warfare" is very big and important changes in the history of war, Armor in Freeciv is useless units.
I can't understand why firepower of Armor is lower than that of Artillery.
Did Armor model on "Panzer II" or "Panzer III"? Where is "Pnther" or "Tiger I" ?

If Health of Armor increases to 40, Efficency increases to 0.75.
0.75 is appropriate compared with Artillery(0.88).
(I'm convinced that Armor is too strong if their firepower is 2. )


And I strongly hope (1).
As "Civilization II", this change gives a new and big role to destroyer until game end.


As far as I can tell, the 'howitzer' in game is supposed to be a towed or self-propelled gun, and probably is meant to be toting a gigantic high-explosive anti-tank gun firing high-arc cannon. Like Battleship size cannon. If you've played World of Tanks, and seen higher tiered tanks get hit by SPG fire, you'd understand why they're stronger :)(Though on the defense they should stand no chance against Armor, or even Infantry units).
If anything, the howitzer should probably not have the 2 defense or not have the 30 health (It receives 50% more health than artillery, meaning its effective defense is actually 1.5 times as high as artillery before the defense increase, which then puts it up to triple.
The problem as I see it, is that all 'big land' units are condensed into 3/4 unit(s): Armor, Howitzer, Mechanized Infantry, (And Artillery if you consider it to be Electric Age rather than Steam Age)
It could use some fleshing out, like this:

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WWI/Electric Age:
Howitzer(Artillery?[Though I consider Artillery to be Steam Age siege weapon, not Electric Age] or perhaps somewhat improvement in power over artillery)
Armor(WWI, Early, thinly armored Armor unit, slow as can be, but with decent attack and defense values[Pre-Mobile Warfare])

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WWII/Combustion Age:
Light Armor(WWII, Same or slightly higher attack, defense, and health as Armor, but much improved Movement Speed[Vanilla Armor?])
Heavy Armor(WWII, Improved attack, defense, health, and slight speed increase from Armor)
Self-Propelled Gun(WWII, super-light Armor unit with thin armor, but toting a gigantic(and heavy) gun. [Which is basically what the howitzer is right now])

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Postwar/Modern/Nuclear Age/Space Age
Battle Armor(Think M1A1, fast as a light tank, even more health than Heavy Armor, and with every bit as much firepower and attack as a howitzer).
Mechanized Infantry(super-light armor-like vehicles with heavy machine-guns rather than cannons, along with the ability to quickly transport infantry[part of the unit rather than ferry] and can additionally ferry missile units.


Also, biplane, jet fighter, and jet bomber are missing from the Air units as well.(Biplane skipped straight to WWII fighter, and then jet fighter and jet bomber skipped straight to stealth fighter and stealth bomber)

fomalhaut
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:24 am
Location: Japan

Re: destroyer/tank/diplomatic message

Postby fomalhaut » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:43 am

I think "howitzer" in Freeciv is modern self-propelled howitzer because they have 2 movement points.
(and I think their graphic in amplio2 is not appropriate.)
But they are not anti-tank arms.
They fire into Non-Armoured fighting vehicles,buildings,materials,and infantry.

If anything, the howitzer should probably not have the 2 defense or not have the 30 health

You mean howitzer is too strong?
I think so too.
Howitzer should not occupy a city by itself.
It's impossible that modern artillery occupy a city without escort of infantry and tanks.

Also, biplane, jet fighter, and jet bomber are missing from the Air units as well.(Biplane skipped straight to WWII fighter, and then jet fighter and jet bomber skipped straight to stealth fighter and stealth bomber)

I agree.
But fighter,bomber,howitzer etc, namely modern units,
they are strong and worth researching and producing.
The problem is that only armour is weak and useless units.
Armour should be strengthened or new next-generation units "MBT" should be incorporated.

The graphic of armour in amplio2 is IS-2,I think.
That is anti-Tiger heavy tank and has 122mm gun.
I have disappointed that their actual strength and appearance is too different in Freeciv.