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Water!

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:22 pm
by Arbogast
This is the 3rd or 4th time that I see this. The first 8 or 9 towns and not a drop of water. Irrigation? Forget it. Gold? 2 measly coins. How to grow?.
My wish is for workers to drill for water. Notice the Oasis, couldn't this allow for a water source like a river?
5 cities out of 8 have a 1 population only. Obviously, the lack of irrigation is a major handicap.

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:09 pm
by Caedo
I support the idea that one should be able to irrigate the land if there's an Oasis.
However, you could also - no offense - build your cities somewhere where there's rivers or oceans, or at least somewhere where there's some plains and grass around. It really helps, believe me :)

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:10 pm
by cazfi
Out of curiostity: what values of "landmass" and "wetness" server settings you use to get maps like that, no oceans nor rivers anywhere to be seen?

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:50 pm
by Arbogast
Cazfi: They are default values.

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:52 pm
by cazfi
For those who want to implement this in their own ruleset: 2.4 has the Irrig_Possible effect, but unfortunately requirement type "Resource" comes only in 2.5.

See "General Settings" of Alien ruleset 2.4 version documentation for example how irrigation can work: http://www.cazfi.net/freeciv/alien/2.4-3/

For your suggested "drilling" ability you could make irrigation always possible (Irrig_Possible without requirements), after discovering some technology, or if you want it to be more work than building traditional irrigation, introduce new base type "well"/"pump station" and allow irrigation of tiles that have that base built on it.

Re: Water!

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:37 am
by Arbogast
That seems like an easy enough trick (Irrig_Possible). Merci
Off the bat, I'm not sure I can pull it off but I haven't looked into it yet. But I will, by God! :mrgreen:

Re: Water!

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:07 pm
by JTN
Arbogast wrote:
cazfi wrote:Out of curiostity: what values of "landmass" and "wetness" server settings you use to get maps like that, no oceans nor rivers anywhere to be seen?
Cazfi: They are default values.

Is it an unusually huge map, them, with correspondingly massive continental interior?

Re: Water!

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:51 pm
by Arbogast
Ah... I guess it is a huge map (256x256 tiles, I think), but I have seen bigger ones here -'earth 500x200', for instance.
There are 1 human and 6 AI players.
But:
Method to generate map: island based
Start position: depending on size of continents
These two in the geological page of "more options" at the start of the game.
'landmass' is set to the default = 50
and I couldn't find 'wetness' so it's set to the default value.

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:24 am
by meme
One day freeciv players will discover that irrigating with salty water is not the best idea.
Unless you have too much petrol and advanced tech. ( more advanced than FIRE )
Most oases are less salty than sea water ; but still , a few centuries is enough to make land kaput.

I'm not saying to put a river on every mountain. (bad idea)
But allow irrigating any moutain (river or not).
Irrigated mountain wouldn't bring food but would bring water.
Indeed , mountains and glaciers are source of rivers and lakes.
Since -12000 temperature rise ;
glaciers are melting , providing water for humanity (who can guess for how long more).

This is a mistake made on the original civgame and has yet not been corrected.
Have a look at Tibet ; or Turkey/Irak ; USA/Mexic ...

Second mistake is that you can irrigate and then cut off the irrigated land from its source.
First , dry irrigation icone is needed (same but in black/grey) for when source is cut off.
Dried irrigation will be flooded (blue) as soon as a source of water is connected (no need to build irrigation again)
And then I would suggest that near mountain lands can be irrigated without irrigating the mountain , so that you don't need to defend that mountain and still can mine it.

Re: Water!

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:12 am
by Caedo
Ladies and gentlemen, here we see a wild necropost in its natural habitat...

As for your ideas - irrigating next to mountains would be easy to do in a ruleset. However, the whole "dried irrigation" thing would require quite some work, since as of right now, once an extra is built, it it completely separate from its build requirements. I'm thinking it might be possible for finite lengths (i.e. your entire irrigation can only go at most X tiles from the nearest mountain/river), but that would still be complicated to do, and I don't think AI would handle it very gracefully.