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Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:59 pm
by Ignatus
While no killstack results on "stacks of doom" marching around, killstack results in one successful horseman wasting 10 phalanxes in one attack. Can we try an intermediate effect: give stacked units defend bonuses so that their chances to defend grows in bigger (until some size) stacks? We assume that while a single phalanx defend the escorted diplomats demoralize enemies, workers build reduits etc., however the defender is only one and has finite hp. For example, if all units in a game have hp=20 and fp=1, then let's add to effects.ruleset something like this:

Code: Select all

;2 units defense 115%
[effect_stack_2_defense]
type = "Defend_Bonus"
value = 15
reqs = {"type", "name", "range", "present"
 "MaxUnitsOnTile", 1, "Local", FALSE
  "CityTile", "CityCenter", "Local", FALSE
  "ExtraFlag", "NoStackDeath", "Local", FALSE}

;3 units defense 124%
[effect_stack_3_defense]
type = "Defend_Bonus"
value = 9
reqs = {"type", "name", "range", "present"
 "MaxUnitsOnTile", 2, "Local", FALSE
  "CityTile", "CityCenter", "Local", FALSE
  "ExtraFlag", "NoStackDeath", "Local", FALSE}
;...
;8 units defense 148%
[effect_stack_8_defense]
type = "Defend_Bonus"
value = 3
reqs = {"type", "name", "range", "present"
 "MaxUnitsOnTile", 7, "Local", FALSE
  "CityTile", "CityCenter", "Local", FALSE
  "ExtraFlag", "NoStackDeath", "Local", FALSE}

The numbers can be found in Excel file. They are adjusted so that with attack value equal to the defense one without the effect the units in equal full-health stacks will die with equal probability (the defending stack loses more often then wins but its units if alive are alive all and can get exp, while from won attackers at average about a half units die while all but one are unscratched but no veterans). Of course the assumption that basically att=def is false in most cases, for 2fp attackers that attack 2fp targets we should use dp(10) column and for other strong attackers recalculate with the strength ratio they most likely have. Finding a defending force for given success probability is difficult (we solve a big power equation, in the table they were adjusted manually), hardly it will be ever done precisely for each case by the game, also AI hardly understands it, but it is actually doable in Freeciv 2.6. What you think about this as a general ruleset idea?

Re: Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:14 pm
by Lachu
Civilization 6 implements similar feature. Each unit placed near unit of the same player gives small defend bonus and small attack bonus.

Re: Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:48 pm
by meme
try a game without killstack

Re: Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:33 pm
by Corbeau
I don't think a game without a killstack would make sense. You create a Stack of Doom and move around the board destroying everything in your sight. Whoever gets the bigger stack wins.

It would make sense if you could limit the number of units in a stack to, say, 3, or even make it dependent on terrain. Also, if there was some kind of supply route implemented so that if the stack gets surrounded and cut off from the rear, it loses some strength.

Re: Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:27 pm
by Wahazar
There was another idea discussed here, I can't find it now, but it was interesting:
if defending unit loses battle, another units in stack run in random directions, if:
1. they have mp left
2. there is place for run, including ZOC restrictions.

Such attempt would bring another tactic dimension to the game, for example how to arrange units to survive attack (in case of defender) or to kill them all (in case of attacker).

Re: Softened killstack: defend bonus in stacks

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:03 pm
by Ignatus
Wahazar wrote:1. they have mp left
2. there is place for run, including ZOC restrictions
This is approximately what v.3.0 flag "CanEscape" does with 50% probability.