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Discussing civ2civ3 changes in 2.6

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:34 pm
by Ignatus
I believe the ruleset is changed dramatically enough in the upcoming version that not only me wants to say something on it, so I open this topic.

Triremes movement

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:45 pm
by Ignatus
I want triremes not be unable to travel by rivers diagonally but lose full turn movement points. See w:Trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks how portages actually worked in corresponding times.

I can tell you a story about why it is important for the game. I played civ2civ3 at single 2.5.9 installation. My Thais found themselves on a shore of a warm sea and I developed ahead to Cartography to explore it. But when I explored enough and exchanged maps with some neighbours, I was displeased to know that my sea is landlocked! There were two things which helped me: first, a careful diplomacy; and second, extended number of rivers for the map, which made the inner sea conected to the outer ocean by a way two rivers. One trireme with an explorer and a colonist send by this river helped me to become a world-controlling superpower early in the game without much wars. How could I achieve this if I couldn't port my trireme that one half-tile gap?

Re: Triremes movement

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:31 am
by dunnoob
Ignatus wrote:How could I achieve this if I couldn't port my trireme that one half-tile gap?
A half-tile gap on a 64*64 earth map is a huge gap, you can't carry triremes on your shoulders over huge distances. It's also annoying if hostile triremes "walk" from a river tile to an adjacent lake/ocean/river tile, if those tiles are not connected by a river or a river mouth. I consider this as a critical bug in 2.5, not as some kind of feature to be preserved in 2.6. There is some new jump-from and jump-to magic in 2.6, I don't grok what it actually does, but maybe you can still get this bug/feature in your rules.

With enough move fragments, say, 60 (as in minutes or seconds, 2*2*3*5 with lots of divisors) and the new Pythagorean move cost for diagonal moves 2.6 should already offer what you want: Just try to clone civ2civ3 and tweak it.

Re: Discussing civ2civ3 changes in 2.6

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:38 pm
by bard
I personally do not like the current implementation of movement on rivers either, and I'm glad to hear alternatives.
I have not worked on civ2civ3 since the release of v2.6, but I would like to work on it again before the release of v3.0, and I'll take into account any comments that I find in the forums.
I did not open a topic myself because few people (or none) commented the changes in previous versions, but I'm glad you opened this topic.

Re: Discussing civ2civ3 changes in 2.6

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:39 pm
by nef
Ignatus wrote:I want triremes not be unable to travel by rivers diagonally but lose full turn movement points. See w:Trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks how portages actually worked in corresponding times.


What we need is a "convert to" option in the field. Either that or build nearby cities one each on the rivers.

I tried "convert to" in 2.4 - using a transporter of some sort for a variety of units. All worked quite nicely but the trireme trick actually crashed the server so caveat emptor.

Re: Discussing civ2civ3 changes in 2.6

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:18 am
by nutzer
If you ask me, which you don't, I would advocate to abandon square tile maps altogether and restrict the game to hexagonal tiles only. The rationale is that hex-tiles enable a more natural behavior of units and avoid many of the consistency problems like jumping over land etc. Such a step would also ease further development of the game.

Re: Discussing civ2civ3 changes in 2.6

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 2:27 am
by elvaqueroloco
A little late to the party so I doubt anyone will see this but I agree with nutzer, hexagonal tiles sound ideal by the logic nutzer set forth. Now how complicated it would be to design freeciv that way, is beyond my knowledge.

-Loco